All Tuah And No Hawk – When False Accusations Fall Apart

Woohoo! What it is, my A&Gers? Y'all ready to get down and dirty in the A&G-verse? Because we here over at Another Not Guilty are gonna keep getting down until these wheels of justice fall off. Got an awesome homegrown LA County Public Defender as our guest today, Emmanuel Garcia, here to tell a tale of an awesome not guilty he achieved for our client. It's just what we do. Also just want to say, hey, A&G is looking to grow and expand.

We are always looking to add more talent to our team. We definitely could use a producer and someone to run our social media accounts. However, if you're also a defense attorney and a public defender, you can help out by just making your own episode like Dallas and Rachel from Cincinnati do. If you're interested in making your own homegrown episode, reach out to me and let's get something going. And if neither of the above options seem feasible for you, but you want to still contribute to the podcast, you can always join our Patreon

Patreon team and make a contribution, which leads me to give in an A&G shout out to Christina Frey, Mario Sayes, and Mariana Cheskis, our newest members to the A&G Patreon team. Yay! Thank you so much for your contributions and help with keeping the lights running over here at the A&G studios.

If you, too, would like to donate to the podcast, then please visit our website at anothernotguiltypod.com and click on the Patreon link.

And with that said,

Without further ado, here's this week's episode of Another Not Guilty.

So my client is, man, he reminds me of my little brother. He's like, I would have said he was 16, but he was 18 or 19. But he wasn't saying a peep. He had these huge bifocal glasses that you could tell were just thick, like, as soda pop glasses. And he was kind of very zoned out. And he wouldn't talk to me. And I go,

Hey, my name is Emmanuel Garcia. I'm here to help you with your case. And he's like, OK. And then I'm like, do you want to tell me what happened? And he's like, sure. He's very laid back, nonchalant, not giving me anything.

Welcome to Another Not Guilty. I'm David Moore, here, along with my fellow public defenders, presenting to you the untold stories of the criminal justice system.

Objection! That assumes there's justice in the system, which there ain't. I prefer calling it the American criminal system.

These stories are about the not-guilty as public defenders get on a daily basis in an unjust criminal system with the deck stacked against us.

And welcome back, everybody, to Another Not Guilty. It's your boy, David D. here, presenting you the freshest not-guilties across these United States. That's right.

Bringing you the real stories of justice or injustice straight from the trenches. No one better tell those stories than the public defenders and how we conquer and slay the dragon on a weekly basis.

Try to put a small dent into this oppressive nation we call the United States.

With that said, I am so happy to see, not an oppressive person, but an uplifting, positive smile, my favorite co-host, the one and only Lauren Marie Manning.

How are you doing today? Good to see you.

I'm good, David D. It's good to be here. I'm extra excited we got a home team match today.

I know. We haven't had a homegrown not-guilty in a while here in Los Angeles.

I know. I mean, all of these are fun to do, but it's just extra special when it's someone right here in L.A. with us.

I think sometimes forget that here in L.A., we started this shit.

Yeah, that's right. We're the O.J.'s.

That's right.

Those motherfucking things I get, that's right.

The biggest and the best right here.

That's right. And we got some homegrown talent.

The big, the bad, the up-and-coming, were you a Gideon award-winning trial lawyer last year in 2024?

We have Emmanuel Garcia from our very own L.A. County Public Defender's Office here to share a not-guilty trial he did.

Emmanuel, how are you doing today?

Hey, David. I am doing well.

Thank you for having me, Lauren.

Pleasure to meet you. I mean, Emmanuel.

Yeah, I didn't know we had an award winner with us.

Last year, I did win the 2024 Misdemeanor Gideon Trial Tourney of the Year.

Did you get a trophy?

Oh, yeah. Do you want to see it?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Obviously.

There's not a lot of accolades for Public Defenders.

Yeah.

Wow.

Look at that.

I like that.

Like crystal?

Right?

It's kind of...

Is it heavy?

Oh, it's pretty heavy.

It kind of sucks that people here for 20 years get a pin, but I'm here two years and I get this amazing crystal, but it happens.

You get a pin at 10 years and a nearly identical one at 15 years.

That's crazy.

I thought our office, you know, they get you a pretty nice paperweight there.

Yeah.

But there's been such a push.

There's such a push to go paperless in our office right now.

What's the point of the paperweight?

You're on that electronic case management.

Emmanuel, go ahead and introduce yourself to the A&G sphere here, or verse, the A&G verse.

Tell the audience about yourself and how long you've been a Public Defender for.

Yes.

So my name is Emmanuel Garcia.

I am a Los Angeles Deputy Public Defender.

I am currently located in Pomona.

I have been with the office since December of 2022.

So that's about two years, two months.

Yes.

And in that time.

You're fresh.

Yeah, I am.

I am fresh.

Up and coming.

I like the word up and coming.

Yeah.

I did receive the 2024 Gideon attorney.

And then this year, I'm receiving the 2025 Richard Hutton is the rising trial attorney of the year.

Wow.

What's that?

Is that from the criminal?

This is from the Criminal Courts Bar Association.

Whoa.

So this is on April 5th at the Omni Hotel, if you guys want to be part of the crew.

Well, shit, you're fancy.

Wow.

You know, we're trying.

We're trying.

We're trying to give the PD's office a good name.

Way to represent for LA.

Thank you.

And I am the first PD to win the award, which is huge to me.

Wow.

And yeah, and everybody will be there if you want to swing by.

I think Ricardo will be there, who is the Public Defender.

I think we have so far like five or six tables, so it's going to be fun.

Dang.

Okay, man.

Okay.

Really coming out for LA today.

Hey.

Look at us.

Came out swinging.

Homegrown.

Did I?

Are you listening to that, A&G audience?

You're award-winning.

When we said fresh, we really meant it.

We meant the freshest.

Thank you.

All right, Emanuel.

So you're a badass trial lawyer with the Public Defenders, or just AKA, just another LA County

Public Defender.

It's me.

That's right.

That's right.

So tell the A&G University about it.

You're here to share a trial you did, a not guilty.

See, you had recently.

You want to bring it to the podcast.

I said, sure.

Let's hear about it.

So Emanuel, tell the A&Gverse what your client was charged with in this particular case.

Ready to be impressed.

Yes.

So this case was one count of 273.5, which is commonly known as domestic violence, one

count of banishing a weapon, and one count of criminal threats.

All as misdemeanors?

All as misdemeanors.

Impressive.

Because all of those can be felonies.

They could.

But thank God they weren't, because I was able to hold on to them.

Okay.

So yes.

All right.

So domestic violence, 273.5, brandishing a weapon, and criminal threats.

So, I mean, is it all one act?

Because it's just kind of like he had a weapon and threatened his, or assuming he, she threatened

their significant other, really, with a weapon.

Yes.

So my client, we'll call him Mr. J.

Yeah.

Mr. J. was charged with, he, it's alleged in the police report that he was involved in

an argument with his, at the time, eight-month pregnant girlfriend.

Oh, she was pregnant, too.

She was pregnant, yeah.

And they were both young.

They were both like 19 or 18.

It's alleged that during that argument that my client punched her in the face, punched

her in the stomach, slapped her, and at the exact same time, a good Samaritan was walking

by.

That good Samaritan tried to help the pregnant lady, walked over, and at that point, it's

alleged that my client pulled out a pocket knife and threatened the good Samaritan.

Like, get out of here or I will stab you.

Good Samaritan backs up, calls 911, cops arrive on the scene, and my client is no longer

there.

They get her interview, then they interview CW, which is a companion witness, and then

my client is eventually arrested for these three charges.

Okay.

Your client, I'm assuming, has no prior record, because this is crazy that these were charged

as misdemeanors.

Oh, yeah.

With a weapon and a DV on a pregnant woman where he allegedly punched her in the stomach.

Yes.

And if these were charged as felonies, he'd be looking at strikes, and they could have

charged a 245A1.

Oh, definitely.

It's assault a deadly weapon.

Yeah, which as a felony would also be a strike.

Oh, they definitely could.

I think my client was very young.

It was his first running with the law.

And as we go through it, there would be, there was some discrepancies on what exactly

happened.

And just, you know, like, Emmanuel, you delivered that so concisely, the way you deliver that.

I can see why you're an effective trial lawyer.

I'm just going to try to sum up what you said, just to make sure we all are on the same page.

So your client is getting into an argument with his eight-month pregnant girlfriend.

And where was this argument taking place?

This was, it started in the vehicle in front of their apartment, well, her apartment.

So client, I have to add, is homeless, and he is not allowed to live with the young CW.

He's actually living in his car in front of her house.

And he is near her.

But he's not allowed to live with her because there's a protective order?

Because she's living with her family, and it's a pretty small apartment.

Yeah.

And so he's living in the car in front of the house just to be there because she's pregnant

eight months.

And they actually work together.

They work together at the same place.

So he was in his car, sleeping, when this argument began.

And somewhere during that argument, she got out of the vehicle and started to walk away.

And at that point, that's when my client got out of the vehicle, followed her, and then

they got into the argument that resulted in her allegedly being hit.

And this is across the street from a DMV.

So the Good Samaritan was actually at a DMV and witnessed all this.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

This happened at the gates of hell.

If the DMV was more efficient, then she would have been standing around in line and looking

around, bored.

She's standing in line waiting for her turn at the DMV because it takes forever.

She looked out the window.

Okay.

And so during this argument, your client allegedly hits her or slaps her in the face?

Yeah.

So there's a discreptive case between the two.

The Good Samaritan states that my client punched her in the face.

My client punched her in the stomach.

My client slapped her.

But the witness herself says that none of this ever happened.

The girlfriend says that.

The girlfriend.

Okay.

So the girlfriend never says he did this.

It's just the Good Samaritan.

It wasn't a recant.

Correct.

It wasn't a recant.

She always maintained he didn't do it.

Yes.

What she always said was that my client spit at her face, which could be worse for some

people, but that's what she always said.

I mean, not great.

Pretty disrespectful, but definitely not as bad as taking a punch to the stomach when you're

eight months pregnant.

A hundred percent.

I agree.

Okay.

So there's some type of interaction between your client and his girlfriend, which causes

the Good Samaritan to come across the street, right?

The nosy Nelly.

Yes.

And then that's when your client then approaches the Good Samaritan.

I mean, and then he pulls out a knife.

So the Good Samaritan, yeah, she said that she sees my client basically wailing on his

eight-month pregnant girlfriend, punching, she said lots of things, and that she crossed

the street and asked him to stop.

And he said something in that, fuck you, get out of here, something like that.

Mind your business.

Mind your business, exactly.

And she says no, starts calling for the girlfriend to come over to get away from the boyfriend.

And at that point, boyfriend goes to the car, retrieves a pocket knife, meets CW, meets

the Good Samaritan in the middle of the street.

The knife is out and tells her, I will effing stab you.

So this isn't even on his person.

He leaves the whole scene to go get it out of his car, according to her.

Correct.

According to her.

Can you just tell me, you said your client and the girlfriend were young.

What is the, this nosy Nelly?

She was also very young.

She was not as young.

Are they of the same race?

They are the same race.

All three of them are the same race.

But I would say that she was like, at least late 20s, early 30s.

She's young, but not as young as them.

Does she tell the police that she heard them yelling?

Like what made her notice these people across the street?

So she says that she was outside of the DMV hitting her vape and saw them.

And saw the act.

Yeah.

The Good Samaritan, our nosy Nelly, was hitting her child?

Well, no, hitting her vape.

Vape.

Oh, her vape.

I thought you said her baby.

I was like, wait, what?

It just got crazier.

It just got crazier.

Yeah.

Okay.

So she was outside smoking.

She was outside smoking her vape.

She says a vape.

A vape of nicotine, of marijuana.

Was she high?

What are we talking about?

I didn't investigate that further.

But nicotine, I would say nicotine.

Right.

Yeah.

And then during that time, she noticed a couple pushing each other.

And then that's when she started focusing on them.

And alleged that that's when my client started punching his girlfriend.

And then your client goes into the street with the knife.

And she goes into the street.

The Good Samaritan goes into the street also?

So the Good Samaritan actually walked into the street before my client was kind of calling

the girlfriend to come over and to stop.

Then allegedly he walks over there, confronts her in the middle of the street, pulls out

a knife, tells her, I will effing stab you.

Then she backs up, walks back to her side, the Good Samaritan.

And at that point, she calls 911.

Okay.

And then the police come and they, was your client arrested right there?

No.

So my client was actually, he had left the scene already.

Okay.

When the officers arrived.

Was the girlfriend there too?

Or did she leave?

No.

The girlfriend was, I believe, in her home at the time.

So when the officers arrived, only the Good Samaritan is outside.

Okay.

And your client had left the scene and the girlfriend was up in the house.

The police go up to the house?

Yes.

They end up looking for the girlfriend.

They locate her and they ask her what happened.

And what does she say?

So this is what she says.

She says that they were arguing because they just did a whole night shift together at work.

And that my client was sleeping in his car because he had a night shift that day later on.

And that she got upset because he did not want to go with her to AutoZone to get a battery for her car.

So they got into an argument and that she left the vehicle.

And when she left the vehicle, she threw the car keys into the car that he was sleeping in.

And the keys hit my client in the face.

Oh, so she committed an assault.

So my client got upset.

He got upset.

He got out.

She states to the girlfriend that my client got in her face and spit in her face.

Now, after the spit, that's when the Good Samaritan interfered.

Interesting.

And I wonder if she, like, reacted.

Like, her face, like, went backwards because she got spit in the face.

And maybe the Good Samaritans just saw the reaction.

That's what I'm guessing.

Either that or maybe some kind of hugging or grabbing at least or pushing.

But that's what she stated.

Okay.

I mean, that's a really big difference, though.

It is.

It is.

What about the whole – did the girlfriend say anything about the client going into the street with a knife or anything like that?

Yes.

So the girlfriend said that from a distance, they believed the Good Samaritan was a man because the Good Samaritan was wearing a hat, had baggy pants, and a sweater.

So at that point, she says that the Good Samaritan began to yell at her and her boyfriend.

And at that point, he's like, oh, shit, it's a man.

I'm going to go, you know, defend myself.

So then he goes up to her, and they begin to argue face-to-face.

Now, the girlfriend says that she never saw a knife, that there was no knife pulled.

Did she see him go back to the car?

She did.

She did.

And she says that she believes he grabbed pepper spray.

Okay.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

She believed he grabbed it, or she said she saw, like, a canister.

He had something in his hand.

So the keys that she threw had a pepper spray canister on it.

Oh.

Okay.

So that is what happened.

But that key chain also had a knife on it.

So I had to add that.

But she says that she didn't see him draw the knife.

Okay.

I mean, he was being a hero.

He was defending himself and his unborn child.

Yes, exactly.

That's what she stated.

Yeah.

The girlfriend states that when the Good Samaritan walked over, the Good Samaritan had a stick in her hand

and was kind of, like, pointing it at them.

Like, hey, she better stop that.

And that's when my clients went back to retrieve something from the car.

So that's an important fact.

Yeah.

So this person had an alleged weapon.

And this is what she told the police.

Correct.

This is what she tells the police.

The girlfriend.

Yes.

No other witnesses?

No other witnesses that the police interviewed.

No surveillance video from anywhere?

No surveillance.

The DMV camera was stopping at the DMV parking lot.

So no surveillance.

The apartments didn't have any cameras.

So that wasn't caught either.

So this is it.

You have these statements as your witness.

Correct.

I mean, as your evidence.

Yes.

Just these statements.

All right.

So then your client's eventually arrested, right?

Yeah.

I believe he turns himself in.

They call him, tell him they want to interview him.

He goes and turns himself in in person.

And he's arrested, taken into custody.

Okay.

And then he's brought to court and is arraigned.

No, he's actually released.

Okay.

I believe he posted bond.

He posted bond.

Okay.

And then he comes to court and I meet him there.

Okay.

So tell us about when you first meet your client.

So my client is, man, he reminds me of my little brother.

He's like, I would have said he was 16, but he was 18 or 19.

But he wasn't saying a peep.

He had these huge bifocal glasses that you could tell were just thick, like as soda pop

glasses.

And he was kind of very zoned out and he wouldn't talk to me.

And I go, hey, my name is Emmanuel Garcia.

I'm here to help you with your case.

And he's like, okay.

And then I'm like, do you want to tell me what happened?

And he's like, sure.

He's very laid back, nonchalant, not giving me anything.

He tells me, basically, I tell him the facts of the case.

I tell him both facts, what the officers are alleging and what his girlfriend said.

And he goes, uh, my girlfriend when it's true, but he doesn't go into anything else.

So I'm having trouble getting information from him.

He was very, he wasn't fully there.

He wasn't, I don't think he understood the gravity of what was going on.

Were you concerned about competency?

I was, I definitely was.

I asked him some questions if he understood what was, understood the charges against him,

understood the time he's facing, which is a serious time for a 19-year-old expecting

father.

At this point, the baby's born.

I believe the baby's two months.

And he's just really anxious to get back to the baby.

He informed me that a protective order was outstanding.

So he had yet to meet the baby, which was very unfortunate.

Oh.

Yeah.

And then, uh, that he wanted to get this behind him because he wanted to go back and

meet the baby.

So.

Wait, who put the protective order in place?

Was that a condition at arraignment?

Yes.

I believe it was a condition at arraignment or.

Really?

Or the, the girlfriend's family made her do it.

But there was a protective order definitely in place.

Well, it seems like if it's, cause when was the arraignment, like how much farther down

the line was it from the event?

Two months?

About two months.

Yes.

So she was eight months pregnant.

So she had the baby.

And then a month later.

So when he was released from custody, is that, can they make that a condition of OR?

Can the police, or the, or the belt, was he bonded out?

Yeah.

So he, he, he bonded out.

So my, I was, I would say it had to be an EPO that was given on the scene and maybe

the family made her take it.

The protective order has to be ordered by the court or sought by the alleged victim.

So it would, this is kind of the reason behind my question is it, her statement, the, the

complaining witness, the alleged victim here is good for your case, but it would be bad

if after she told that to the police, she then went and sought a TRO.

No, I agree.

So I'm trying to, man, I, I, my only guess, because at a rate, sorry, you know what, at

arraignment, at arraignment, a CPO was put in place.

Okay.

A CPO was put in place.

So the first day you saw him.

Yes.

The first day I saw him.

Which would be standard for the prosecutors to ask for.

Correct.

Correct.

And then I, I, I got the bonnings on it.

Okay.

So it had to be an OR condition.

So then at arraignment, the EPO was put in place and he says, I, I haven't seen my

kid yet.

Yeah.

So it was, so, okay.

So then now I know I'm missing the story.

So that's the first day I meet him.

The CPO took a split in place.

And the next time I meet him, I am asking him what he wants to do with the case.

And he says, I want to fight it because I want the CPO off.

If he took a deal, there will be a CPO for three years.

And there's no way around that.

So I think that's what led him to go to trial was the fact that he wanted the CPO gone.

And, you know, and he's sort of a man of few words.

He just said, oh, my girlfriend's version is the correct version.

Yes.

Which is, you know, sounds like a healthy relationship to me, you know, whatever she says, that's

the truth.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's just a story.

Yeah.

He's ready to be a dad.

Let me tell you.

He was, he was ready.

And then just talking to him, he would say things like, I told him the offer, you know,

you got to tell him the offer by law.

So I told him the offer.

I'm like, they're very serious charges.

This is what they're offering.

It's, you know, some classes.

I don't think they were offering jail time.

So the offer didn't look too bad.

But he, the CPO was huge for him.

He needed to see his family.

And he, and he said that he didn't do these things.

And I explained to him that he's getting three charges.

So even if he did one of them, he would possibly get some DV terms.

And he just meant a few words.

He said he wanted to think about it and come back and talk to me another court date.

So that's what we did.

And I ordered the evidence.

Did you ask the DA for a level one?

I did.

I did.

He said no.

He said no way.

And your client might have taken the deal if you'd have gotten the level one.

So that's one thing I always tell the DA when I see him was, hey, if you would have

given me a better deal, we probably would have resolved this case.

But, you know, the DA played hardball and we played hardball back.

So let's fuck around and find out.

Yeah.

Yes.

So then what type of evidence are you requesting, you said?

So at this point, I requested the body warn, the interviews, because, I mean, at this point,

it's all he says, she says.

Right.

I requested all video, and they gave me a lot of video.

It was, I want to say maybe 15 officers, 15 or 20 officers showed up on the scene, and

they all had body warn.

So it was M-Vars, body warn.

It was a lot of videos I had to look through.

And I'm looking at it, and I'm seeing the interview with the Good Samaritan.

And she sounds credible.

I mean, she's saying all the right things.

She was passionate.

She was scared.

I was like, well, I mean, it's plausible.

So looking through all that, and then just the one interview with the girlfriend.

That's all they had, just that one interview with the girlfriend.

And it matched the police report.

Her story stayed consistent from the police report and the video.

Did you send an investigator to get statements from them?

I did.

I did send an investigator to speak to the girlfriend.

Her statement stayed the same.

Same statement that she made in the police report and in the body warn.

And then I sent an investigator to speak to the Good Samaritan.

Now, the Good Samaritan says that she never had a stick.

There was no stick there.

The stick never existed.

And that she said that my client added a punch.

She added a punch when they were arguing in the street.

That my client at that point looked back at his girlfriend and said,

shut up, I'm talking to this person.

Punch the girlfriend one more time before pulling out a knife.

So she added to it.

Her story was getting more fantastical, whereas the girlfriend's story was staying the same.

Exactly.

Was person, I'm talking to this person, was that the word that was used?

Person?

No, I'm talking to this bitch.

Oh, thank you.

I'm talking to this bitch.

Thank you.

I'm talking to this bitch.

Yeah, yeah.

Ten times there's fucking Karen over here.

Yeah, yeah.

But after speaking to my client, he himself said that he thought the Good Samaritan was a man.

He's like, yo, she was a man.

I thought she was a man the entire time until they got face to face.

And that's what he said.

How dangerous is this woman?

So, yeah.

She did dress manly.

She did have hats.

She had her hair in braids.

She looked, like, from a distance, she kind of looked like a man.

Baggy clothes, braids, hat, tattoos.

That's just a stoner chick, man.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, she had her hair faded.

Yeah, yeah.

She's bathing.

Yeah, you know, it's just a regular California stoner chick.

So, you have at this point, you have all the evidence from the prosecutor, and you have your statements that you got when you sent the investigator out.

Now, has your client at this point told you what happened beyond whatever my girlfriend said is true?

Did he ever give you more details?

So, what he says, and it was so hard to get anything out of him, he actually ends up coming back at the second court date with a statement written out, and he tells me, you know, can you read this, please?

So, I'm guessing he's having difficulty communicating verbally.

So, I read this paper, that is his statement, and it's the exact same statement that the girlfriend said.

It was the exact same thing.

And then he says that he believed that a male was trying to come and hurt him and his pregnant girlfriend.

So, at that point, he focused on the male, approached the male in the middle of the street, was ready to defend his eight-month-pregnant girlfriend and himself, realized it was not a male, that it was a female.

And walked away.

And that's what he says.

Did he say that he said, you know, stay back or I'll stab you, or did he say he made any threats in his intent to defend everyone?

He says that the Good Samaritan approached him with a stick and was like, back the fuck up off her.

And he was like, oh shit, you know what, fuck you, you back the fuck up.

This is my girlfriend, she's pregnant, and he held his ground.

And that, yeah, it wasn't until he realized that it was, you know, a female that he decided to walk away.

How big is this stick?

So, the stick is, we never see the stick.

The stick is not filmed on the scene.

The stick is never located.

The stick was just mentioned in the girlfriend's statements and in my client's statements.

So, we never get to see the stick.

But she says, the girlfriend, that it's like a small bat.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

Did Nosy Nelly, when she said your client had a knife, did she say it was on a keychain?

She says, she does.

She says that it was on a keychain, but she knew nothing else.

She didn't know the color of it.

She didn't know how many inches.

She didn't know the brand.

She's not good at estimating inches.

That's not her name.

Did Curious Karen say how close the client, I just wanted to know how close the client got

to you during the street?

Yeah.

So, Curious Karen says that they get around six inches from each other.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

But girlfriend and client say-

She can't identify six inches.

She could.

I mean, I feel like if someone put a knife in my face, I would be like, yo, it's a black

knife, about six inches, you know?

But girlfriend and client say that they were further, like five feet from each other, that

they never got that close.

That's very close.

Six inches away from someone.

That's what I said.

That's like, you're basically nose to nose.

How could you not see it, you know?

How could you not know what was popped out?

Did Mind Your Own, Needs to Mind Your Own Business, Mandy, say whether she made any

gestures towards him?

No, okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

So then, what about the 911 call?

Did you listen to that?

So, I did listen to the 911 call.

What's that show?

Yeah.

What did Lan Lisa say?

At this point, 911 Nancy basically says, she says the same thing that she tells the officers

that she said, hey, I need to.

She's actually kind of calm.

She's not too frantic.

And she's like, I need, I don't want to hear now.

There's this guy beating up his pregnant girlfriend.

And he, she states that she is screaming at her to come to her side of the road.

So, in the call, you hear her say, hey, come over here.

Come over here.

And then, she says, oh, they left.

But her statements stay the same, that she mentions the girlfriend getting beat up.

And then, she mentions that the client has a knife.

She never mentions that they got into his face.

She just says, he's beating her up.

He has a pocket knife.

And then, we need cops.

Okay.

All right.

Oh, wait.

She says that he has a pocket knife, but not that he pointed it at her or said anything to her.

No, not in the 911 call.

It wasn't until she was interviewed later.

Did she tell the police that it was after she made the call that he threatened her?

No.

It was, uh...

Okay.

So, that's a big detail.

Yeah.

She doesn't mention that.

That's a missing piece.

Yeah.

And I think, at this point, she is trying to get the cops there as soon as possible.

And she's like, hey, you gotta get here now.

Sure, but if someone had threatened you with a knife and you want him there as soon as possible,

that's a thing you would mention.

If it had already happened, you'd be like, he's beating up his girlfriend and he's threatened

me with a knife.

Yeah.

And it's six inches in black in front of my face.

Okay.

So, any other evidence?

You got some bodywarn video, some 911 calls, any other pieces of evidence you've received?

No.

No, that's just the 911 call, the bodywarn.

The officers, they do a follow-up interview with the girlfriend.

And girlfriend, the exact same statements.

Nothing changed.

So, she's told the story three times.

Yes.

There was the original interview with the police, which they wrote in the report and they caught

on bodywarn video.

There was the supplemental interview with the police, and then she talked to your investigator.

Correct.

So, you have three written or at least recorded statements from the girlfriend, and they are

all consistent.

They are all consistent.

Nothing added, nothing taken away.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

So, then, anything you're doing to get ready for the trial, like your defense prep?

Yes.

What's that?

So, I am, well, first of all, I'm trying to get more information from my client, and he's

not saying peep.

He's just, you know, I don't care.

Yeah.

And I'm like, do you want me to order some, see if there's cameras in your apartment building?

He's like, yeah, sure.

Like, he's just very quiet.

So, I'm, I said to the investigator out there, there was no cameras.

I start looking through all these videos.

It was so much video.

And I'm just starting to get the statements from different angles, inconsistent statements,

looking through all these things.

And then, in this one video, the officers are talking away from the interview with the CW.

I mean, with the Good Samaritan.

And so, I look for the Good Samaritan interview, and I find it.

In the Good Samaritan interview, her story stays the same, never mentions a stick, just everything

that I already mentioned, that she saw a client hitting girlfriend, punching, strangling, then

got in the street, asked girlfriend to come over, boyfriend comes with a knife, puts it

in her face, threatens her, and then she calls 911.

Everything stays, you know, pretty, pretty similar to the police report.

Then, I find a video of these two officers talking kind of on the side of her.

And in that video, there is this four-second faint clip where she's doing this swinging motion

of a stick.

Oh, in the background?

In the background.

And then, you could hear her say, I had this stick.

Oh, shit.

So, she says that in this background body-worn video.

Busted.

But that, I could never find that video of the exact interview where she says I had a stick.

Either the officers turned it off by this point, or she was talking to her family, wherever

she was saying.

It wasn't to an officer.

And then, this one clip.

And they also completely didn't put it in a report.

Yes, in the report, it wasn't there.

A stick was never located on the scene.

So, I find this one clip where she's just doing a swing motion.

And I think I went and, like, turned off one of the speakers on the camera and did the

whole mono stereo thing.

And I hear, like, I was swinging this stick.

I had this stick.

And I was like, ah.

Got him.

If you play it backwards, it says, hail Satan.

I had a stick.

Hail Satan.

Bring the stick.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

What police agency is it?

Is it sheriffs?

This is Pomona PD.

Pomona PD.

You think Pomona PD would know better by now, how to turn off your biteworm cameras in high

hands.

That is really disappointing.

Shout out to Pomona PD.

I deal with this a lot.

But, yeah, still, it's Pomona PD.

Hile Pomona.

All right.

Yes.

Stick swinging Sarah.

All right, good.

So, now you got your nugget.

You found your golden piece of impeachment.

Question, though.

Did you, did you in any way bring this up to the DA ahead of time?

Be like, hey, or were you saving that for your impeachment?

Oh, I was, so what I did was after, my investigator interviewed her first.

There was no mention of the stick.

Then I had my interview, my investigator do a follow-up interview, asking about the stick.

The first interview, I had her say her part.

She wanted to hear it.

No stick.

Second interview, I had my investigator purposely ask about the stick.

And she goes, did you have a stick?

And she says, no, per the investigation, that she didn't have a stick.

Then later on, about two hours later, she calls my investigator back and says, I think I was kicking a stick on the ground.

And so, she mentions the stick, and she says, I was kicking it around.

It was a stick from the DMV that fell off a tree, and I was just kicking it around.

Oh, okay, great.

So, she's.

So, now, yeah.

So, now I have it on paper and on camera that there was some form of a stick.

Yeah.

So, she knows.

She knows.

Okay.

Anything else you're doing to get ready for trial?

Getting my transcript ready, my impeachment, just watching these videos, preparing my argument.

Do you know this is going to trial at this moment?

So, I'm not sure if it was right at this point, but my client comes back.

And he says, I want to fight this case.

At that point, the CPO has been out, and he hasn't been able to see his child.

I believe it was his son.

Hasn't been able to see his son and assist in taking care and caring of his son.

So, he needed a trial to be able to see his son, his newborn son.

And I said, okay, these are the consequences.

As long as you know them, it's okay with you.

I'm okay with it.

Let's go.

And we announced ready for trial.

So, getting ready for trial then.

So, the DA that's been handling the pretrials, are they also the trial lawyer in this case?

They are.

In the misdemeanor court, they are.

They hold on to the case.

This is DA and not city prosecutor?

No, this is DA.

We have DA.

I assumed it was a city prosecutor, and it was outside of DA jurisdiction because it was not charged as a felony.

Yeah.

No, this is district attorney in Pomona.

So, then what's been the attitude or the tenor between you and the DA throughout pretrials and up until trial?

How's that been going?

Yeah.

So, the DA, at this point, he was a newer DA.

I believe this was his first trial assignment.

So, he was excited for trial.

I mean, you see these facts, you know, eight-month pregnant woman getting beat up in the street by a boyfriend that pulls out a knife on a good Samaritan, and you're thinking you have a slam dunk.

So, he was pretty pumped up when I told him to go to trial.

He was kind of more like, are you sure?

All right.

Let's do it.

Yeah, but he underestimated the award-winning Emmanuel Garcia.

He underestimated the facts, I think.

The judge you're in front of, is this your calendar judge also?

Or did you get sent out in Pomona?

So, this is my calendar judge.

Okay.

Yeah, he's the one that.

From arraignment to trial.

All right.

And have you gone to trial with this judge before?

Yes.

At this point, I believe I had two trials with him.

Okay.

And okay experiences?

Yeah.

I won both of them, which were good.

And he's fair.

Okay.

And that's all we could ask for in this line of work is a fair judge.

We don't need him to lean one way or the other, but just cheers both out and be fair.

So, any pretrial motions, motions of limine, 402s?

Yeah.

So, I try to keep out the evidence of the Good Samaritan.

I try to keep her statements out because they were inconsistent.

They were kind of everywhere.

I mean, of course, I was just throwing stuff at the wall.

Wait.

Keep them out.

But how would –

Yes.

Like, she's going to get up there and testify, and then you would –

How would they even come in unless they're inconsistent, right?

Yes.

So, my whole theory at this time – I think it's like going to end up in the third or fourth trial.

So, it was newer.

So, my whole thing was like, well, if she's going to testify, we don't need video as well.

You know, kind of like cumulative.

I was trying to keep that out.

I was trying to keep out the fact that my client – that the girlfriend was eight months pregnant.

I thought that was huge, and I thought that it didn't go to the charges.

So, I tried to keep that out.

That part was like, dude, she's eight months pregnant.

This is going to –

You did a 352.

You said this is too prejudicial.

Yes.

But it's not probative, so –

Exactly.

And the judge decided to know that it's coming in, that she is eight months pregnant at this time.

And I was like, fuck.

Okay.

I assume you tried to keep out the 911 call?

Oh, definitely.

I tried to keep out the 911 call.

I tried to keep out the girlfriend being pregnant.

They both got denied, you know.

But there was no 1109, right?

No.

There was no –

Prior domestic violence.

Sorry.

Yeah, there was no prior domestic violence.

They were both very young, and at that point, I had not been told that there has been a prior domestic violence incident, phone call.

Because just for our listeners, 1109 is acts of prior domestic violence, and even though we already know from Emmanuel that his client hadn't been arrested before,

1109 allows in prior acts, even if they're unreported or the person hasn't been arrested or convicted.

So if anyone had said this, it happened before, that could potentially come in in front of everyone.

That is correct.

But there was no 1109 in this case.

Nothing.

Okay.

Well, did the DA have any 402s?

He wanted to know if the witness is going to testify.

And I was like, well, we don't know yet.

We don't know if the witness is going to testify.

Because the witness could decide to testify at the last day or decide not.

As in your client?

As in my client, yes.

Sorry, sorry.

As in my client.

Okay.

So he wanted to know that.

Wait, a 402 on that?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Come on.

He was a new DA.

He also had this-

It's okay.

It's a new DA.

It's all right.

His baby DAs are funny.

He is a baby DA.

We've all done things.

We've all done things.

Okay.

Yeah.

And then I have this real passionate closing in which I show the burdens of proof.

And so to arrest someone, to convict someone at a criminal trial, you have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that they are guilty.

So I have this burden of proof where I start with reasonable suspicion, clear and convincing evidence, preponderance of evidence, reasonable doubt.

I don't remember it fully right now, but something like that.

And this is in my closing where I state that they didn't prove this case, you know, going up to the top.

And at this point, Pomona is pretty familiar with my closing.

So he was told-

Do you have like a chart or something like that?

I do have a chart.

Yeah.

I do have a chart.

It's demonstrative.

It's only like-

And I go-

Just a little bit of evidence for arrest.

Yes.

And a little bit of evidence, you know, for the-

And a little bit of evidence for the state to take kids away.

But we're talking about your freedom here.

And that means that this much evidence is needed.

Exactly.

Highest burden of proof.

Yes.

Before the trial even started, this little baby DA came in and tried to say you couldn't use your closing argument.

Yes.

He tried to say that I couldn't use the chart for the burden of proof.

Oh, yeah.

And I mean, someone had to tell him to even know that I had it.

So I was like, okay.

And then I said, well, Your Honor, if you're going to rule out my demonstrative chart, then I want all demonstrative evidence out.

Like, it's just demonstrative.

And closing is not evidence.

It's just arguments.

And don't-

And the DA power-

The DA powerpoint.

Get that motherfucker out of here, too.

Okay?

Yeah, I want it.

I want the powerpoint with the official seal and the sad music.

And the check the box on the elements.

We proved this element.

Check.

And we proved this element.

And wait, hold on.

My button's not clicking the check.

Check.

The people versus-

No, 100%.

So we argued that.

And then the judge just basically said, if you have an objection to make, make it when it happens.

There's nothing to object with now.

Yeah.

So then we were ready.

We got 402s and ready to begin trial.

All right.

Cool.

All right.

All right.

So then let's talk about jury selection.

By the way, how was your client?

You know, he's been mad at a few words.

Still the same?

He hasn't smiled, smirked.

He hasn't smiled, smirked, and made an angry face.

He is cold-faced.

He is just like-

He was-

Is that acid?

No, he was looking down the entire time.

He wasn't looking up.

He was-

I would ask him questions, and he was like, yeah, whatever.

It didn't even matter that one of L.A. County Public Defender's best is defending him right now.

An actual rising star.

Seeing you in your element, and it still does nothing for him?

Come on.

This was pre-awards, but still, yeah.

Oh, he didn't know.

He couldn't foreshadow yet.

He couldn't foreshadow yet.

All right.

All right.

So let's talk about jury selection.

Tell us about your voir dire.

So we get into voir dire.

My judge is very thorough.

His voir dire takes about two days.

Great.

Oh, that's awesome.

Yeah, about two days.

Like what, all 60 or so, or what's he doing the whole thing?

Yeah, he does-

I think at that day, we had around 50 at the time.

50 got called in.

And voir dire is basically where you get to hear about the jury, learn about them, and see if they're okay with doing this trial.

If they are the jury.

Two days of just the judge is painful.

Oh, yes.

It was, and that's before I even spoke.

But that's great, though.

I mean, no, listen, you want that.

I think you want a judge to do two days, as opposed to a judge that does 30 seconds.

I'm not disagreeing.

I'm not disagreeing.

It's just, it is painful, though.

Like, that's rough to go for two days of just the judge questioning on a misdemeanor.

Ouch.

But in misdemeanor land, I enjoy it because my cases don't stop.

I'm still running calendar in the morning from 8.30 to 1.

So every day that he takes-

Oh, so you were like, stretch this.

That's your day.

Yeah.

I'm ready to prep.

I could prep more, prep more, prep.

It's, I still have cases following this one, following that one.

It doesn't stop.

You know, I have my case load.

So I enjoyed it.

I was able to work more on the stuff I had to do.

Yeah, like that, that first cross-examination, you know, like-

Yeah, big one.

All right.

So then, so the judge says, does a thorough voir dire.

Great.

Anything you want to say about the judge's voir dire?

Should we ask you about yours?

No.

No, he's, he was, he was thorough.

Okay.

He asked the basic questions.

So then what was yours like then?

So at this point, I established that I'm going full self-defense on everything.

Oh, yeah.

We didn't even ask you your defense yet.

So, okay.

So my theory is that client was sleeping in his vehicle and he just wakes up to these

keys getting thrown at his face.

He doesn't have time to ask if it was accidental.

He just, boom, got a metal keys with knives and mace on them thrown at his face.

So he runs up and confronts his girlfriend who just threw these keys at his face for all

he knows.

For all he knows, she did it on purpose.

So my defense is that at that point, self-defense, you're allowed to, you know, respond back

equally.

If someone punches you, you can punch them back.

What you can do is if someone punches you, you shoot them.

You know, that's, that's beyond self-defense.

So my argument was going to be that she threw keys at him.

At that point, he's allowed to throw keys at her.

He's allowed to push her.

He's allowed, he's allowed to possibly maybe hit her, but he didn't do that.

He just spit on her.

He didn't physically hit her with his body at all, even though he's allowed to under the

law because keys were thrown at his face.

So he's allowed to return that same, I will say, keep that same energy in self-defense.

The threat still has to be there though.

The threat of force.

Yeah, the threat has to be there.

And, and I'm pretty sure that was coming out because the girlfriend was saying they were

arguing that she was, so my, my job was to admit that she was angry, that she threw the

keys during an argument and that she was still upset when they were arguing face-to-face.

All right.

So Emmanuel, tell us, how do you go to these average citizens to get them?

You're trying to find citizens that are saying it's okay to spit it in your baby girlfriend's

bits.

So go ahead.

Tell us about this.

How's this go?

That was difficult.

How's this go?

So, so I went with, I started, I started big picture.

If, if, if a guy pushed you, would you push him back?

Yeah.

If a guy punched you, would you punch him back?

Yeah.

If a guy was threatening you and you felt threatened, would you use reasonable force to get them

away?

Yeah.

Okay.

Now, what if it was a girl?

Do you believe that it's fair for a girl to push a guy and to not be able to get pushed?

And that's how I introduced him.

You have to do that to make sure there's not the double standard with a guy coming after

a girl.

But in your case, Emmanuel, she was already walking away and your client went after her and spit

in her face.

So, so the, the, the, yeah, eventually that was.

It's never going to be perfect, Lauren.

It's never going to be perfect.

Okay.

I'm just, I'm not buying this sort of self-defense.

Maybe it's like a jury nullification self-defense.

Lauren.

Just give the jury something to hang the hat on.

I don't even think this qualifies as imperfect self-defense.

This is just revenge.

He was pissed.

Now we know, now we know we can't have Lauren on my jury.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's just a spit in the face.

It's not even, it's like not even 273.5.

It's a lower, it's 243 E1.

It's like, there's no injury or anything like that.

So.

It's just the battery.

And mind you, at this point, the jury doesn't know the facts of the case.

So I'm just saying, Hey, if, if a girl came up to you and punched you in the face, do you

believe it's reasonable for you to push her back?

And they're like, yeah, you know, it's, it's reasonable.

Um, and I'm like, if she comes up to you and hits you with a stick, do you think it's

okay to push her back?

Yeah.

So I get people to agree with me, uh, as far as the double standards go, I asked anyone

if they have a double standard in which, you know, no matter what a guy should not

hit a girl or no matter what a guy should not push the girl.

Like there's people that are real machismo and that I know you should never touch a girl,

which is, you know, it's a belief, but maybe those people are not perfect for this trial.

But this is relevant too, because he thought that the Karen character was a man too, but

it turns out it was a woman.

So you have to also be sure that it's okay with them for him to display some sort of aggression

towards this person.

Oh yeah.

The voir dire was everything in this, this trial.

The voir dire had to be, had to get everything out.

Um, and it had to be the perfect, I don't want to say perfect, but good enough voir dire

to be able to weed out the people that don't believe self-defense is okay.

Any interesting interactions with jerseys that you remember or any pushback?

Yeah.

I had a couple people that said, no, you know, if a guy, if a guy hits a girl, they are guilty.

It's wrong.

If a guy touches a girl, it's wrong.

No matter what, you know, it's never okay to put hands on a female.

Exactly.

And I was asking crazy.

I was like, what if she's a professional boxer?

What if she knows jujitsu?

And they're like, no, take the beating.

What if she's eight months pregnant?

Yeah.

Hey, throw it in there.

Right.

And they were like, no, take the beating.

It was interesting.

And were those men that said that or women too?

Or were women like, because it's like women know like, oh, no, I know.

Yeah, no, it's okay.

Women can get feisty too.

So, you know, like what's.

I was surprised.

That's what I was surprised by that.

It was all men.

Every, I believe every woman I spoke to said it was okay for, that if they hit someone,

that they're able to defend themselves.

It was all guys that said no, that it was not okay.

And I was like, it was surprising to me.

I did not expect that.

But we had, thankfully, that jury pool was majority women.

And they all kind of agreed with what I was saying.

So, it made it a little easier.

What about the prosecutors, Wadir?

I think he mentioned the pregnant thing.

He what?

I was like, mentioned the pregnant, the girlfriend being pregnant.

And I didn't object.

I'm happy it came out before trial.

I was okay with that coming out, just to see their face when they responded.

And he kind of drove in on, he kind of focused on the, it's not okay to hit anyone ever kind of thing.

Well, that's, that's unlawful.

That's definitely not the law.

Yeah.

That's not what the law says.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

I feel like one of the hardest things about picking a DV jury is all of the people who say that they've experienced it.

Either themselves or like, as kids growing up with their parents.

I, every DV case I've ever done.

There's a string of people who are like, I can't be fair because my dad used to beat my mom in front of me.

Oh, we got that.

Did that happen in your case?

Yeah.

Oh, we definitely, we definitely got that.

Some of them, well, a lot of them were people that were one-sided.

Like at that point, if, if your mom stood up and punched your dad in the face, was that okay?

Yeah, that was okay.

Okay.

Well, that's self-defense.

You know, at that point, if your dad was getting beat up and he pushed your mom away, is that okay?

Yeah.

Well, that's, that's self-defense.

You know, majority of the DV stories that I was hearing were just one-sided, you know, mom or dad's getting beat up and not, not responding back.

And some of them added that they wished that their parent would have responded back in some way, some self-defense or something.

So it was good.

It was good to have them.

It's a play in your hand.

It did.

And then having them share those stories, the other jurors hear it and they, it gets their mind going like, yeah, you know what?

It's not that bad to defend yourself.

So that was good.

Yeah.

All right, cool.

And you said you got a majority female panel for the.

Yes.

Yes.

That was not, that was not by design.

It just happened to be a majority of females on that jury.

It's not ideal.

It was not ideal.

But I did keep, I actually kept two of the guys that said it was not okay for a guy to hit a girl.

Was that because there was something worse waiting in the, in the shadows that come through and like, well, just like these two dudes.

So I was seeing them respond to the, to the other jurors talk about DV and they would nod their head yes.

And when I would say like, okay, what if your mom's through it for yourself?

And they were kind of given all like, you know, I could tell that even though they sounded a little machismo verbally, I could see their agree with other stuff.

I'm like, you know what?

Maybe, maybe they ain't that bad.

Maybe they will at least hear me out.

Yeah.

Maybe sometimes they're just saying to think they're, they're just saying to think they think they're supposed to stay.

Yeah.

But then they realized, oh, there is other points of view out there that I can adopt and agree with.

Or they're trying to get off the jury.

Yeah.

All right, cool.

Well then let's talk about opening statements.

How'd your opening statement go?

So my opening statement, I, I laid it out all out there.

Some people keep it close to the heart.

I went, I said, what was your impeachment stuff?

Even my impeachment stuff.

I mentioned, I mentioned the stick.

I mentioned the stick because I already knew that she was either going to admit it or I was going to impeach her on it.

Because either way, she made, she made two different statements.

So either way, I was going to mention it.

But the DA doesn't know anything about this yet.

No.

This is the first time the DA heard about it was your opening statement.

Well, the DA saw the police report in which the girlfriend says that there was a stick.

Oh, okay.

Got it.

Yeah.

So the DA knows.

So I go out there and I tell them, you know, you're going to hear what happened on this day.

You know, the officers assumed there was a DV.

The officers assumed there was a criminal threat.

The officers assumed that there was a weapon displaced.

But none of this happened the way the officers assumed.

You know, I went into the argument.

Them, sleepless night, pregnant, late, keys thrown in the face.

Keys thrown, client wakes up with keys thrown, being thrown right at his face.

And that he wakes up and, you know, his girlfriend's outside of the car yelling at him.

She's not, she's still angry.

She's still mad.

So at that point, he still feels threatened.

He's like, well, she's not relaxed.

She's not, she hasn't fully walked away yet.

She's yelling at me still.

So he gets out, gets in her face.

And that he has an option to, she's yelling at him.

She just threw something at him.

So he believes that the, at this point, he believes that he was the one that was victimized.

He believes he was hit.

And at this point, while she's yelling, he could still get hit again.

He doesn't know.

So rather than pushing her away, he spits on her.

That's what he chooses.

He chooses the least intrusive way to get her to back up.

Except for just staying in the car and locking the door.

He had the key, but she couldn't get in.

Yeah.

Except that.

Almost the least restrictive.

Almost the smallest reaction.

Got it.

Okay.

He has.

And then, and then I went into saying that, you know, at this point, this random guy, I, at the opening, I was saying a guy, a random guy started yelling at them from a distance.

And this random guy is swinging this stick, this bat-sized stick around, and this random guy comes towards them.

And at that point, my client realizes he has to protect not only himself, but his eight-month pregnant girlfriend.

So he goes confront this random guy in the middle of the street, realizes that it's not a random guy, realizes that it's actually a girl.

And at that point, he walks away.

He didn't go any further.

He just walks away.

And boom, he gets arrested for these charges that he didn't know why he was getting arrested for.

How was the prosecutor's opening statement?

He doesn't mention the stick.

He mentions, he went into this real passionate about.

Yeah.

He mentioned this real passionate eight-month pregnant woman who was suffering domestic violence at the hands of her boyfriend.

And then he pulled out a knife and gets in Samaritan's face.

And then during that argument, punches pregnant girlfriend in the stomach again and punches pregnant girlfriend in the face again.

And then it wasn't until the cops got there that this, you know, eventually stopped.

But, yeah, he paints this real gory picture.

This real gory photo.

Well, prosecutors are just not as good as we are.

I could end the sentence there.

But, I mean, they're not as good as we are about owning the bad facts that they have.

Like, if he would have gone first in his opening statement and said that they were going to hear that maybe there was a stick or maybe there wasn't.

But the fact that he didn't say it and you got to bring it up, it just, he gave you so much power with that.

Oh, it was huge.

Yeah.

I know.

They just, I would, also, I would just say that it's, you know, you could say, oh, it's his first trial, but they don't get any better.

You know, they just, they never learn how to deal with bad facts.

Yeah.

They would just say, I want you to focus on the stuff I like.

That's what they say.

And they don't want to address the problems.

There was, there was no evidence of bruising, right?

Like, on her face.

So, so this is, this is where I think he oversold his hat.

He went into this gory photo, the gory image that he was painting for the jury.

Yeah.

But mind you, they interviewed her right after the incident.

Yeah.

Maybe, like, in time-wise, maybe, like, under 10 minutes.

The officers got there pretty quickly.

And in the interview, her face is clean.

No bruising, no swelling, no blood, nothing.

And she's so calm.

What about her belly?

It was pregnant.

It was, it was pregnant.

But she had nothing.

No bruising.

And she didn't, she didn't go to the hospital to make sure the baby's okay?

No.

Because if you're taking a punch to the stomach at eight months pregnant, you are going straight to the doctor to make sure the baby's okay.

Or they would at least transfer you, right?

The officers would ask you to get transferred to get checked up.

But no, nothing.

And she's even, in the video, she's even shocked when they mentioned her getting beat up.

And she's like, no, no one, no one hit me.

And her face is regular.

So I thought, I mean, the prosecutor gave me the video.

So he obviously had the videos.

And he was promising something he cannot deliver in his opening.

Right.

All right.

Cool.

Let's, how's the evidence roll off for the people then?

So they put up girlfriend first.

Okay.

And I mean, to me, I don't know why they did.

Her story never changed.

Yeah.

Her story was the exact same that she has now said three times in a row.

That'd be good for you.

She never added, oh, it was beautiful.

It never added anything.

It never took away anything.

She was right on par with what she was saying.

And he tried so hard to catch a lying.

And she's like, no, none of this ever happened.

Like, everything you're saying did not happen the way it did.

All right.

And, you know, I crossed her.

Yeah.

And I feel like I'm crossing now.

It's an opportunity for you to, like, get in good with the girlfriend.

Right?

To show that you are vibing.

You have more chemistry with this person.

That she's on your team.

So go ahead.

Oh.

And it felt like that.

It felt like she was on my team.

Right.

Like, she, I had her say her statement.

And then I played the video of her saying the statement.

And I was like, have you seen this video before?

And she's like, no.

And I was like, have you seen any of the interviews before?

She's like, no.

I was like, you said the exact same thing all four of these times.

She's like, yeah, because that's what happened.

And I was like, she never prepped this before.

She said, no.

I was like, we never spoke.

No.

That's just the truth.

It's her truth.

It's the truth.

She did admit.

She admitted to throwing the keys.

I got her to admit that when they were arguing post-keys, that she was still very passionate,

very angry, and in his face.

And that was important to prove that the danger of him getting hit again has not gone away.

That he will still be threatened by this woman that threw keys at his face while he was sleeping.

And I got her.

I was thinking about that.

That's how it is.

It's like, he just got keys thrown in his face.

So he's going to go confront her to make sure something else doesn't come flying in his face later on.

Yeah, exactly.

And it wasn't like, if she would have said, no, I was cool by then.

I was calm by then.

I told him, sorry.

No.

She said that she buckled down and kept yelling at his face.

Like, you're lazy.

And cussing him out, you know?

And he's like, you just threw keys at my face.

You know, you're going to hit me again?

And I asked her if she regretted throwing the keys at his face.

She said, yeah.

She said, I regretted throwing the keys at his face.

I should have not thrown the keys at his face.

Did you guys ask to have a lawyer appointed for her?

Because she's going to admit to a battery on the stand?

No.

I was hoping the DA did not charge her with anything.

And they didn't.

So that's good.

Okay.

So that's what she said, though, right?

So she threw the keys.

He just confronts her.

So she says he did spit in her face, though.

Yeah.

She says.

Like spit how?

Like a big old whoop?

She didn't make it sound like a hawk to a spit?

She didn't make it sound like a hawk to a.

But she made it sound like a simple, you know?

Oh.

Could you guys hear that?

Yeah.

A quick one.

Yeah.

And then.

Yeah.

Just a two-er.

No hawk.

No two-er.

And then.

Yeah.

And then she goes on to admit that she also thought the Samaritan was a man.

And that was important.

Just to prove that he wasn't lying.

And then she says, yeah, look back.

I thought it was a man.

You know?

He had a big old jacket on, baggy pants, hair like in braids, hat.

And that he had a stick.

Yeah.

That he had a stick.

And that he was waving it.

And that it wasn't until she got to his face.

And mind you, she doesn't have glasses.

My client has these huge bifocals.

Yeah.

And during this argument, he's not wearing his glasses.

That's a huge fact.

He's not wearing these big bifocals that when you see him, they're just like hanging off the side of his face.

So he couldn't see well either.

And she, who does have 20-20 vision, says that she thought it was a man coming at them with a stick.

And she says that she was scared.

That she was like, this guy's approaching us with a stick.

What's about to happen?

That she herself was scared of him.

And that was important for me.

All right.

So who testifies next for the people?

Next is the Good Samaritan.

All right.

I think now we have, what, two names for her?

Yeah.

The Good Samaritan.

I'm thinking of her now as Pat.

You remember that character?

And no one can tell if it was a man or a woman.

Oh, with the big brushstrokes?

From Saturday Night Live.

Saturday Night Live Pat.

Saturday Night Live Pat.

Yeah.

So Pat.

So Pat ends up, I like that.

So, yeah.

The Dantic Pat is coming up.

Here we go.

Yeah.

So my whole theme was like, is Pat going to come dressed like a female?

Or come dressed like herself?

And it was, I didn't know.

A lumberjack.

Yeah, I didn't know.

And then she came in, in her lumberjack waist.

She came with a big old jacket, baggy pants, had her hair fade, had a fade like mine.

Like, the hair was cut short.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

But braids on top.

Tattoos.

Yeah.

Like, you know, she looked like she was about that business.

I was like, whoa.

Okay.

You know.

Came in, took the stand.

Pat seems down.

I'm gender conforming.

I like that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Pat looked.

I like Pat.

Pat looked down.

She's cool.

She's down, right?

Pat looked down.

Yeah.

So then Pat takes a stand and.

Give the Pat down.

All right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But Pat takes a stand and the DA, the DA does this thing where I spoke to him after.

He regrets it.

But there was this sign in the courtroom.

That's a lot.

Yeah.

There was a sign in the courtroom that said, like, you can't speak to the prisoners.

You can't speak to, you know, to the inmates that are out here.

But the sign was about 20 feet from the, where Pat's doing testimony.

About 20 feet.

And I think the DA tried to get ahead of the curve by, because I was going to argue that

she couldn't see exactly what was going on between girlfriend and client.

Like from where she was at, it could look like a fight.

It could look like a spit.

It could look like a, you can't see.

So the DA does this thing where he goes, and how far were you from, from them?

And she goes, oh, about a hundred feet.

And she goes, okay, this sign is about what?

20 feet, 30 feet.

Yes.

And he goes, can you tell me what that sign says?

And then Pat says, uh, I can't read it.

And I was like, oh, glory.

This is amazing.

You can't see that 20 foot sign on the wall.

Oh, it was beautiful.

I can see the DA's face just turn like, oh, I just fucked up, you know?

And then does a whole statement, goes into everything.

Saw him beating her up, punching her.

I approached her, just asked her to come with me.

Client comes up to me, gets in my face, puts a knife six inches from my nose,

threatens me, threatens to kill me.

I walk away, call 911.

DA never asks about a stick, never mentions a stick.

Makes a good Samaritan look, you know, holy, as holy as can be.

And I was like, okay, this is going to be interesting.

So then I go, I go up.

And I start crossing the Good Samaritan.

And the first thing I do is mention the stick.

Like, hey, you had a stick in your hand.

And he's like, no, I didn't have a stick.

And I was like, okay, you told my investigator that you had a stick.

Or that you were kicking a stick.

And then she's like, oh, you know what?

Yeah, I was kicking a stick.

And I was like, oh, so there was a stick there.

Yeah, yeah, there was a stick there.

I was just kicking it.

And I was like, well, where did the stick come from?

And she's like, uh, I don't know.

I think I found it on the floor, but I never picked it up.

So I was like, okay, perfect.

You never swung a stick?

She's like, no, I never swung a stick.

So then I play the videos to impeach her.

And in the videos, you see her doing the swinging motion with the stick.

And she says, I had this stick.

And she does the whole swinging motion.

So then I'm like, so you did have a stick.

Oh, that moment must have been so good in front of the jury.

Like, ha, ha, ha.

You could hear the gasps.

Like, ha, ha, ha.

Oh, it was perfect.

Gotcha.

I live for those moments.

It was beautiful.

And then you take a chance.

Are they going to be honest or not, you know?

And then she says.

It's so much more fun when they're not.

And you're just like, oh, yeah, let's look at this together.

I got you, that Matlock moment, you know?

Yeah.

And then I told her, so do you want to tell us about the stick now?

And she goes, well, my autistic nephew likes sticks.

And I was like, where did the nephew come from?

And I was like, what?

And she's like, so he had a stick.

And I took it from him because he was playing with it.

And it was dangerous.

And I was like, oh.

So there wasn't a stick.

But now there was a stick.

But now your nephew had a stick.

He has an autistic nephew.

An autistic nephew thrown in there.

And it was a dangerous stick.

It was a dangerous stick.

So she went from having nothing to now holding it in her hand, confronting my client, but not swinging it.

Just to save her autistic nephew from the stick.

So it was beautiful.

You're coming apart, Pat.

You're coming apart.

Pat was handing me nuggets.

And I was taking them.

And I was loving them.

Right.

Did the DA try to rehabilitate?

So the DA, at this point, I don't think he was ready.

He didn't have anything for the stick.

He couldn't.

He tried to confirm what she was saying.

Like, oh, so the stick, you only had it because you were trying to help your nephew.

Yeah.

Oh, so you didn't swing it?

No.

You weren't using it towards anyone?

No.

Do you think the DA hadn't realized that was on the body worn since you just found this tiny little background clip?

A hundred percent.

So that was a surprise to the DA as much as it was to Pat on the stand and be like, oh, yeah, you didn't have a stick?

And you played it.

And the DA was like, oh, fuck.

Yeah.

The DA definitely did not see it because that clip was like, you would have to watch these two officers.

It was probably like 10 minutes into the video.

The video was like 24 minutes.

And they were not talking about any case-related stuff.

So it's important to watch those videos because you find little things that you would not expect.

And it went out, like, usually 10 minutes in, you're like, I'm going to turn this video off.

I think they were talking about what they were going to have for lunch or something.

And I'm just watching in the background because I can see CW.

And I see that motion.

And I'm like, stop it.

Rewind it.

And so I know for a fact he just zoomed by it.

He didn't know it was coming.

It's just beautiful.

Oh, it's perfect.

Also, what's cool, too, is that you found a piece of evidence that the Pomona PD tried to bury, too.

You know, they turned off the body worn videos.

It wasn't mentioned in any reports.

Like, you couldn't even figure out what officers those were.

It wasn't part of the discovery that was turned over.

They just, you know, people think that we have these body worn video to enhance, you know, trust in our public, in our officers.

But they can turn them off.

They just can't do it.

They just can't ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever be, you know, investigate cases with integrity.

And they mute them.

They usually mute their cameras.

And they pick and choose what they record.

And it's unfortunate.

But every once in a while, we get something good.

Anything else with respect to the, for Pat, in terms of her testimony that you want to add?

Yeah.

So, I was trying to, I was, I was trying to get Pat to admit that, like, she was coming aggressive.

And at this point, she was denying it up until the stick.

Then she admits she has a stick.

And then I start asking her about the knife.

This is a lead knife.

And she can't tell me the color of it.

She can't tell me what kind of knife it was.

She can't tell me which hand he held it with.

But she did admit that my client did not have his glasses on.

And mind you, client's sitting in his chairs with these big old bifocals.

So, there's some vision problems that, you know, there could be some vision issues.

Yeah.

And then I ask her if she's ever been confused for a male.

And she says, yeah.

She's like, yeah, a couple times.

I'm like, okay, that's perfect, you know.

Thank you for answering my questions.

And then I was okay with it.

At that point, I got enough of what I needed from my argument.

All right, great.

That sounds like a great cross.

You know, it sounds like you got everything you wanted.

It went exactly.

I don't think you could have gotten any better.

Yeah, no.

It went good for me.

Nice.

Okay.

Great.

So, who was the next witness that people put up?

So, I prepped this huge thing for the officers.

This kind of like, you didn't investigate anything else.

You know, you didn't investigate the person with the stick.

Yeah.

You didn't investigate this person with a stick that was threatening my clients.

You know, like, was it going to be sexist?

Why didn't you investigate this woman with a stick?

Why didn't you ask her about the stick?

Like, I was ready to deliver the smackdown on these officers because there was 15 that

were on the scene.

And I believe three were important.

And the people rested.

And I couldn't believe it.

I was like, oh, shit.

That's it?

Like, that's it?

Two witnesses.

One didn't change the story.

One changed it 50%.

I was like, all right.

You know, I'm not upset.

So, time for the defense then, right?

Yeah.

For the defense.

I knew my client.

I mean, by law, if your client wants to testify, you have to let them.

Yeah.

So, I asked him, like, do you want to testify?

He's like, no.

Like, he was just like, no, not really.

I don't think so.

And I was like, okay.

The judge is going to make sure you don't want to testify.

He's like, okay.

And then the judge asked him, he's like, no, I don't want to.

And I was like, all right.

All right.

You know, perfect.

You know, let's go to the closing genre.

Is he wearing the bifocals during the trial?

He's wearing the bifocals.

And I told him to dress up.

Without clients, you want them presentable.

You want them, for the jury, to think that they are.

Well, you have to be very specific when you tell them to become presentable sometimes.

Yes.

Yes.

You want them as professional as possible.

You know, if you have a suit, wear it.

If not, a button-up.

You want the jury to like them, to not think that they are.

Bad people out of the courtroom.

You know, this is just a bad instance or a mistake.

But my client, I told him.

And no, he came in a black hoodie and his bifocals, you know, sitting there with me.

Yeah.

I kind of like that, though.

Because he's just, I mean, the jurors know he sleeps in his car, right?

Yes.

I definitely drove that home.

And what's his, is he a big guy?

What's his stature?

No.

I mean, he was tall.

He was not tall.

He was like 5'10", but he's very skinny.

He was a scrawny guy.

He's like Urkel in a sweatshirt and a hoodie.

That's what I'm picturing.

But Mexican.

So he was like, Estefan Urkel.

I just feel like he looks like this pathetic person with the bifocal glasses and the hoodie.

He sleeps in the car.

I mean, I think that you have a sympathy case going for him there.

Like, the one thing he did was he just got upset after keys were thrown in his face and he spit at his girlfriend.

I mean, this guy already has a tough enough, you know.

So that's, I don't know.

That's just how I see it.

Yeah.

And for both of them, because, I mean, they're both just kids trying to eventually raise a kid.

And they're both working nights at a warehouse.

And they're both, one, sleeping in the car near his wife or girlfriend in case he goes into labor.

So it's a sympathetic, you know, scenario for all parties.

So your client rests or doesn't want to testify.

Did you put on any other evidence or any evidence at all?

I did not, no.

I was happy with what I had.

I felt comfortable going forward.

I love it when I don't put on any evidence.

Yeah.

I said, no, let's do it.

No, this is best.

Okay, cool.

So let's talk about closing arguments and how did your closing argument go?

And by the way, the prosecution always goes first on the closing arguments, but I don't want to hear about their closing argument.

I want to hear about their closing arguments.

I know it's the best one.

It's the best one.

Man, I'll be doing it right now.

No, so I go to closing and I just tell them, like, whose story stayed consistent?

Whose story never changed?

Who told you what happened?

And whose story changed?

Who told you they didn't have a stick?

Then they had a stick.

Then they kicked the stick.

Then they picked up a stick.

Who told you that they saw this distance but couldn't see the wall?

Whose story kept changing and, you know, just drove it home?

Who said they weren't aggressive?

But, mind you, the girlfriend also testified against, essentially, the Good Samaritan.

The girlfriend was saying that the Good Samaritan was aggressive.

The girlfriend said that the Good Samaritan had a stick.

So the DA had, at this point, me arguing against the Good Samaritan and the girlfriend herself arguing against the Good Samaritan.

Like, you can't believe both.

You got to believe one.

Well, and the video.

And the videos, yeah.

And then, who got caught lying on video?

Who got caught lying on video?

And at this point, like, who's more believable?

The girlfriend whose story hasn't changed?

Or this person whose story has changed many times?

I also drove home the face.

Like, if someone was hit this many times, they would have at least bruising, at least bleeding.

And the face was clean.

And I closed it.

It was red spots.

Yeah, something.

And I closed it with, do you want to know what happened?

Do you want to know what really happened this day?

Like, yeah, couldn't speak to me.

And I was like, boom, I pushed play.

And I showed the interview of the girlfriend that happened five minutes after the incident.

And she just, I let it play.

I let the whole play.

She says, you know, I threw keys at him.

He came out.

I yelled at him.

He spit in my face.

This guy came with a stick swinging at us.

He confronted him, realized there was a girl, walked away.

Boom, done.

I was like, that's what happened.

That's what happened.

My client was able to defend himself against both of these people.

You know, he was sleeping.

He didn't know if he was getting attacked by his girlfriend.

He didn't know what was going on.

He woke up to keys being thrown at his face.

He had, at that point, he could, by law, throw the keys back, push her away.

But he did not choose to do any of that.

He just spit at her to get her away.

Then this man comes swinging this stick, and he decides, okay, now I've got to switch to boyfriend mode and defend my girlfriend and defend myself.

Goes confronts her in the middle of the street, realizes it's not a man, it's a girl, and walks away.

And that's the argument, and that's what happened.

And we rested.

Both of us rested.

Went to jury deliberation.

Yeah.

And yeah.

Yeah, how long was the jury out for?

45 minutes.

Oh, right.

Yeah.

And I was, I mean, I'm going to lie to you.

I was scared to this.

Really?

Because I was still in the court, and I was like, eight-month pregnant girl, you know, knife, spit.

I mean, it's only your third jury trial.

It's not like you really know.

Yeah, you just.

Yeah, yeah.

And I'm just like, man, this is.

And it was so fast.

You usually hear on the defense side, if it's fast, you're fucked.

That's, you know, usually what you hear.

That's not always true, though.

It's not always true, but.

I've had super fast go of both ways, so.

Well, that's also, they pump the new lawyers with this, like, I remember when I was going

through training, like, wow, you kept them out for a day, or you kept them out for two.

Yeah, exactly.

Like, they try to sell you on, like, if you keep them out for longer, then it's a win.

At least you made them think about it.

That's true, but you don't have anything.

Just some bullshit, you know.

Yeah, no.

You don't have anything, and you keep them out for a day and a half?

That's a fucking win.

That's a win.

Like, you should have lost within the first 10 minutes.

Like, that's true.

But otherwise, you know.

Oh, yeah.

No news is good news.

No, so they, well, I was traumatized, too, because my trial, my first trial, I, they went

back to deliberate.

I was packing my stuff up.

I was leaving.

I didn't even get to the elevator at CCB before they called me back, and I was like, guilty

on all counts.

So I just associate, you know, I associate, so I was, all right.

That sucks.

So I was traumatized.

I associate, like, quick, quick results with bad news, and I was like, oh, shit, here we

go, you know.

Wow.

So tell us about the reading of the verdict.

So the 45 minutes was quick.

I was still in the courtroom.

I didn't get a chance to leave, and I was like, oh, wow.

I believe the DA was gone, so he came back.

And in Pomona, the DA's office is in the building, in the courthouse.

And for me, I'm a couple blocks away, so I'm happy I didn't leave.

But I was there.

He gets there.

The judge comes out, and I believe the first one he reads is the domestic violence one.

And he says, not guilty.

And I was like, oh, shit.

Like, that's a big one to me.

That's the one with the long-lasting effects, the three years of probation.

The collateral consequences are clear.

Probation, 52 weeks of domestic violence counseling, which is expensive, especially if someone's

living in a car.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Community labor, father-to-be-for-one.

That would be 10 years.

Yeah.

Gun prohibition.

For life.

Yeah.

That's the one that I felt the worst.

So I won that one, and it was just like, okay, I don't care about the rest.

Like, that was, you know, I care, but I was like, oh, that's, we wanted him to reunite

with his son at this point, who's two months old.

And I felt good.

I was like, oh, you know, thank God.

And then the next one was the exhibiting the deadly weapon, not guilty.

And I was like, oh, shit.

Like, then it got, you know, maybe, it can't be three in a row, you know?

It can't be third one.

Third one, the criminal threats, not guilty.

And I couldn't believe it.

I was so ecstatic.

And I was, I had this smile.

I pumped the table.

I looked at my client, and he's just staring straight face, no reaction, not a smile.

Did he not understand?

No.

So after it's done.

Wait, is that when your client leaned over to you and was like, act like you've been there

before, bro.

Come on.

So he was just like, he was like this, and then the judge excuses the jury, and I look

at him, and I go, congratulations.

And he goes, uh, could I go now?

And I was like, that's what he told me.

That's what he told me.

He was probably just so scared through the whole thing.

He didn't say anything.

Just a kid.

He's just a kid.

And I'm like, yeah, you could go.

And then I gave him the order, well, the sheriff served him with the order of a CPO, you know,

the determination of the CPO.

Okay.

So I was like, keep this paper with you in case officers try to fuck with you.

You know, now you could be next to your family.

So he leaves.

Then he calls me like a week later, and I'm like, hello?

And he goes, hey, this is Mr. C.

I was like, hey, how you doing?

I'm thinking he's like, you know, now it's hit him.

He's calling me to congratulate me, and I thank you.

And he's like, uh, can I talk to my baby now?

And I'm like, yeah, CPO's over.

And he's like, I could talk to my girlfriend, too?

I'm like, yeah.

He's like, okay, bye.

Boom, hangs up.

Yeah, it was great.

And she's pregnant now?

Wow, that's great.

Yeah, right?

And then he was happy to do that.

He had no emotion, but I was happy.

I was happy for him, and I knew what it meant to him and his family.

Even though he didn't show it or tell me, I know what it meant.

He might need a 730 if he comes back.

Yeah, it was awesome.

And then I spoke to the jury.

You know, you want to know whether you did good or bad.

And then, yeah, they all said that it was their witness.

It was the, the, I forgot the name we have for the Pat.

That Pat, that, the video cemented it for him.

That clip that I found by looking through all this body worn in the background in 20 minutes,

that video was what took away all her credibility and cemented the fact that they didn't believe her.

And I was like, oh, my God, that's amazing.

That one piece of evidence that started to get the sweater to unravel.

And, yeah, and I felt amazing.

Awesome.

Awesome.

It's, yeah.

Well, we got to get going.

I know it's almost out of time here.

Anything that we, you want to add that we may just didn't ask the right question, that we may have missed?

No, that was, that was my, my beginning here at Pomona.

I've been here now for a year, you know, doing trials and loving it.

Fighting the good fight every day.

Emmanuel, it's, I mean, it's a pleasure to meet you.

I, even before you reached out to me to be on the podcast, I actually heard of you.

I was, actually, I was on the committee last year that voted to have you be the, this to be no lawyer.

Oh.

I was part of that committee.

Oh, you're, you're the one.

Oh, thank you.

Yeah.

So, I, I already know of the work you do.

And so, I was excited to see when you reached out to the podcast and said you wanted to be on.

I was like, okay, cool.

This guy's, this guy's going to be good.

Don't want to go to your head.

I've never heard of you.

Damn it.

I got to go harder next year.

You didn't disappoint, you know?

And so, I'm glad that, I'm glad that you came on.

Did you, how'd you, have you been a fan of the podcast or did you know about the podcast?

Yes.

So, I heard about it, I heard about it when I was an intern.

When I was an intern in law school, someone told me that there was this guy, David Moore, who does a podcast.

Well, first I heard about A&G and I heard it.

And then I talked to someone about it and they're like, you know, he actually works for the office.

And I was like, oh, really?

What?

He's a PD.

First of all, I didn't know you were a PD.

So, to know you were, or an attorney in general, I thought you were just a podcast guy, you know?

So, to find out that you're actually an attorney and a PD and here fighting the good fight was even, I think, to me, even more amazing.

So, keep doing what you do.

It's a beautiful work.

I listen all the time.

It's amazing.

You got to walk the walk, you know?

Yes.

Yes.

You got to go through it, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's great.

That's so cool.

I'm glad that, you know, Laura and I were probably going to try to go do some law school shows in a little bit.

Yes.

Of course, maybe later this year.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

Well, maybe I'll see you again.

You know, I have a couple of wins under my belt.

Maybe I'll call you again one time.

Yeah, yeah.

We can talk about that after the show.

But let's close it out here.

We're going to ask the question, the ultimate question that we ask all our guests, all our defense attorneys and public defenders.

Emmanuel, why did you want to be a public defender?

So, I wanted to be a public defender because I was actually, I believe, a victim of the high school to prison pipeline.

I went through dependency care as a child.

I was an incarcerated youth and an incarcerated adult.

I also was a high school dropout.

And I just felt like I was always getting profiled by officers in my community.

And I just thought it was unfair.

And when I was arrested as an adult, it was strictly profiling.

And I knew I didn't do what they were accusing me of.

And when I was in that jail cell, it was scary.

It was the first time being arrested as an adult.

I didn't know what was going on.

And I told myself that if I got out, I will go back to school, get my GED, and become a public defender.

You know, to give a voice to the voices and fight for people that are in my position.

And I got released.

I got released after about four days.

All charges were dropped.

Because of a public defender?

No.

At this point, but I did have a public defender as a juvenile.

As a juvenile, I had a public defender.

In Pomona, actually.

But as an adult, I was just like, this is unfair.

Like, for me to be arrested for something that I didn't do, and just by being profiled and being in here in this jail cell, I thought it was unfair.

And I could only imagine the injustice that happens in this jail cell and throughout Los Angeles County and all the state.

So I told myself I wanted to be an attorney.

I was like, I'm going to make sure this doesn't happen ever again, you know?

At that point, not knowing how the justice system works and what was going on.

But I got out, and I got my GED, went back to community college, and went all the way through until I graduated law school.

And I interned.

I went to law school knowing I wanted to be a Los Angeles public defender, like nothing else.

No private, no corporate, just a public defender in Los Angeles.

So I went to school up north, and I went to UC Hastings, now known as UCSF Law, and was able to intern all four years with the LA Public Defender's Office.

So as soon as I graduated, I started here December 2022, and it's a dream job.

Every day, I'm living a dream.

It doesn't feel like I'm working, and I believe it's the most fulfilling job a person can have.

What a great origin story.

Yeah.

Thank you so much.

That's great.

That's great.

I mean, I'm so glad you're on our team, and I'm glad you're able to bring your unique experiences to help benefit our clients and even help benefit even the people around you, the people you work with.

I'm sure they have so much they can learn from you, having been through all that you've been through.

Yeah, we're glad to have you be on the island of misfit toys with us.

Thank you for having me.

Thank you for having me.

Yeah, thanks for being on the pod.

And Lauren, always so glad.

So glad we get to spend these days together, hanging out, talking to the cream of the crop in our profession.

LA pride.

That's right.

That's right.

Pleasure to meet you, Lauren.

Can we call this episode all Tua and Nohawk?

I think so.

All right.

We'll end on that.

Have a good day, everybody.

Have a good day.

Bye.

Bye, everyone.

Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of Another Not Guilty.

Shout out to Daniel Mark, original A&G theme music composer, and Mike Grimm for the remix.

And guess what?

We'll be back in two weeks with Another Not Guilty straight from the trenches.