A Cop Hopping Kangaroo Court – When the State Jumps the Shark

What's up, my A&Gers? Just want to say thanks for the downloads, likes, subscribes, comments on social media. And most importantly, thanks for sticking with us this season. It's been a blast. Public defenders and defense attorneys across America working hard and passionately to restore humanity and dignity to those the system wants to steamroll and throw away. And it's important to acknowledge and tell that story, which is what this podcast is about.

Big thanks to public defender, Matthew Killigrew for editing this podcast and the rest of the A&G team for making this season possible. Enjoy the episode. Enjoy the not guilty. Stay safe out there. It's crazy out there. And in the courtroom. With that said, without further ado, here's this week's episode of another not guilty because they kept saying he was resisting and that he wouldn't walk. And I'm like, he's tied up from his ankles, his knees.

He's in his arms. And you're saying that he's in his arms. And you're saying that he's resisting because he's failing to get up. They use all of this as justification for saying he resisted. He's like, well, can you demonstrate to us how an individual would walk if he gets up and he starts like hopping? Wait, the cop? The cop got off the stand and started hopping around the courtroom.

Bunny hopping. Bunny hopping around the courtroom. What the hell are you doing, officer?

Welcome to Another Not Guilty. I'm David Moore. Here, along with my fellow public defenders, presenting to you the untold stories of the criminal justice system.

Rejection. That assumes there's justice in the system, which there ain't. I prefer calling it the American criminal system.

These stories are about the not guilty as public defenders get on a daily basis in an unjust criminal system with the deck stacked against us.

And we're back. We're recording. What's up, everybody? Welcome to Another Not Guilty.

It's your boy, Davey D. here, bringing the freshest not guilties across these United States of ours, these states of unitedness.

How did Obama say it? These united.

It's not the blue states of America or the red states of America.

It is the United States of America.

These United States of America bringing the freshest not guilties that America has to offer because America is built on freedom.

Yes, sir. That's right. So I think every United States citizen should love a good story about a not guilty.

And we here at Another Not Guilty are bringing you the hottest takes all the time in the system.

I'm especially excited today. Two people with me right now.

We are bringing back an old time favorite from Another Not Guilty from way back in the day.

You guys know him as the Mooch. He's my co-host today. Mooch, how are you doing?

It's great to be back. It's great to be here. Can't wait for another great episode.

All the way from the beginning, too, right? You're back from season one.

Season one.

Right.

OG.

Well, we've got some new fresh talent in the office with us today.

Indeed.

Our guest, guys. His name is Jamarcus. Jamarcus, how are you doing today? Welcome to the pod.

Thank you. Thank you, David. I am doing amazing.

Thank you so much for having me here.

I know I've been reaching out, knocking on that door, trying to get in here, and I finally got here.

And I'm very excited to be here with you and Borello himself.

So thank you for having me, David.

You know, Jamarcus, you did it.

Somebody else told me about your Not Guilty.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, other people reaching out for you, you know, making it happen. You're kind of big time like that, right?

Oh, yeah. It was a little something like that. My supervisor, she definitely, I just woke up, and I just remember seeing a lot of messages, a lot of emails.

Congratulations, congratulations. I'm like, wait, what happened? And I read it, and she sent a mass email to the entire office explaining that it was my first jury trial, and I received a full acquittal. It was amazing.

Yeah, yeah. And that's what we're here for today. We want to hear about your first jury trial, Jamarcus. So you've been with the office for how long now?

So, okay, so officially as a public defender, I started December. I'm still a grade one, so I'm a public defender one.

Okay.

But I've been interning for a couple of summers, actually.

Okay.

I'm originally from Tennessee. You may can hear it in my voice, a little country right there.

But I'm from Tennessee. I'm from the South, born and raised. Memphis, Tennessee to be exact.

Moved out here, took the bar exam out here. I actually moved out here because the public defender's office here actually offered me an internship in Atlanta, like a convention or whatever.

So here now, then did like two or three summers, and now they said, hey, you're good enough. Let's get you in here.

Wow, wow.

Yes, sir.

So you had to do two to three summers with us?

Mm-hmm. Yes, yes.

And in all that time, you didn't do anything to jeopardize us hiring you?

I mean, I was here showing my face bright and early, and I guess they liked me enough to bring me on in.

I'll tell you, I did not intern or law clerk for LA. It was Orange County, and Orange County would not hire me. I feel like I must have said some shit that ruined it, or I don't know what it was. So thank God LA hired me, though.

Yeah, no, I do.

But yeah, I still remember my very first jury trial. It was nerve-wracking, but it was also fun and exciting at the same time because it was kind of like, this is what it's all about.

Yeah.

This is what it is. This is why we're here. So, Jamarcus, tell us about your very first jury trial experience. What was your client charged with?

Okay, so my client was charged with 273.5A. It's a corporal injury in a domestic relationship. So, domestic violence.

Yeah, but it's a misdemeanor. There's a little bit more of an injury there. It's not just like a push, you know, with no injury. But yeah, go ahead. Keep going.

Yeah, and then also a 148 resisting the arrest. I saw those two allegations, and I'm like, okay, this is going to be interesting.

And we're at the police report, the allegations. We all know that the police report is the most false thing ever.

The bedrock that starts the whole system, right? It gets filed by the prosecution. It gets filed with the clerk's office. The report trickles its way to us.

So, what did the police report say?

So, basically, according to the police report, it stated that my client was belligerently drunk, had came home, said that he went to the back of the room.

He was mad. He was angry. And that out of nowhere, he began to choke his girlfriend, punched her twice in the face, and, like, he stated that he dug his nails inside of her neck, all because he was just mad.

They didn't have a justification. They literally just stated that he was mad, that he was drunk.

They were using the alcohol as, like, a reason, as a motivation that he went to the back. He was already angry, and that resulted into that.

And is this, like, from the police report, this is all statements from who?

From the girlfriend, yes, from the girlfriend.

Okay. So, then you get this report, you see the charges, domestic violence, misdemeanor, domestic violence, mandatory probation, big fine, mandatory 52 weeks domestic violence class.

All of that. All of that.

Stay away order.

Your client's, it's belligerent. He's belligerently drunk, just beating on his girlfriend, which, you know, you don't necessarily need an excuse to do that.

Just sometimes, some people just do that, right?

Right.

Some people just are mad drunks, you know?

It's not, so, in this moment, how are you feeling?

First off, I'm still, what, three, four months in, so, like, I'm just getting, I'm still learning how to read a police report, but, like, I'm getting in, I'm reading it and everything, and I'm like, okay, this is the one.

I really want to, you know, put the asterisk beside this one. This is the one I really want to talk to.

Why? Why is that?

Because it's, like, just the nature of it, and then when you hear a resisting arrest, that, in itself, just, it pisses me off.

We might have glossed over that. So, he beat on the girlfriend, he choked her, he punched her, then how did he resist?

The overall resisting arrest was when they came up there. The officers, after speaking with the ex-girlfriend outside in the driveway, she told them they were speaking in Spanish the entire time, and she says, yes, he's up there sleeping.

They asked, what does he speak? He speaks Spanish. They sneak up on him in the bed while he's asleep.

Okay.

Sleep. Quiet. It felt like I was watching, like, an episode. I was on, like, Call of Duty or something.

Like, they were throwing these signals of, like, let's go in, like, they're quiet, and, like, they're creeping up on my client, like, and creeping up on him.

Again, he's asleep. They put, one goes to his legs, and the other one goes to his arms, and he says, they grab him immediately, and they say, police, Los Angeles Police Department, you're under arrest.

But he wakes him, he said that he thought he was having a nightmare.

Oh, wow.

That's what he, his exact words.

The police report says that he's sleeping in his bed, and they just roll up on him.

They don't even want to say sleeping.

They just say he was in his, um, was in the room.

They caught suspect in the room and arrested him.

He began to kick and scream and lock up, and none of that is on the video.

So, he was, in the police report, it says that the girlfriend was going to leave for the night.

Yeah, the police report doesn't even say anything about that.

The police report basically states that, um, he hit her, he beat her, he went to sleep because he was so intoxicated.

She finally ran from the room.

She was able to call her cousin.

Please, cousin, come help me.

Cousin comes.

Cousin's like, girl, you should call the police.

Calls the police.

The police arrives, and there it is.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

All right.

So, you see this case.

You see the, you put a star by it because you're excited.

Put a star because I'm like, yeah.

148.

Every public defender has to try a 148 at some point of resisting, obstructing.

Mm-hmm.

All right.

You go meet the client and tell us about that.

Is he in custody or out of custody?

Out of custody.

Thank God.

He's out of custody.

We have the Spanish interpreter there, and she's telling me everything that he's explaining

to me.

I see his arm, and he starts crying.

Yeah.

And he was telling me, like, how she was the one that injured him.

Okay.

That his girlfriend is the one that gashed his forehead with a metal can, like an air freshener

bottle.

Okay.

Yeah.

This is the things that he's telling me during my, during while I'm speaking with him.

And yeah, it gets very, very crazy.

But he tells me that he did nothing wrong, that it was all a misunderstanding, that he's

the actual victim, and that they overall listened to her and just went from her story and didn't

even listen to him.

Did he describe the 148 or at least the, how that happened?

Like, what did he say about that?

So he said that they woke him out of his sleep.

That was the main thing he kept saying.

He said, I, it felt like it was a, I was having a fucking nightmare.

That's what he kept saying.

He felt like he was having a nightmare because when you see the video, he's fast asleep.

They sneak up on him.

He didn't, he, first off, they're speaking in English.

He only speaks Spanish.

So he has no idea what's going on.

That's what he's telling me.

They put, they, they put their hands on him to, to wake him up, to wake him up.

They, they basically, to basically arrest him.

Like he, he tells the other officer, you get his leg whispering, you get his legs.

I'm going to get his arm.

You don't even have the common decency to wake my client up and tell him what's going

on.

That's insane.

Insane.

That's like, cause that's not even like police.

Is that police training, bro?

What do you think, Mooch?

I mean, like, these cops are just here like deciding, like, like, I feel like that's how

kids would decide to, to arrest somebody.

You know, like, that's a, like anybody can come up with that plan.

Like sneak up on him quietly.

I'm like, what?

Sounds like some wild west tactics.

Deputies just marching on in and doing what they feel like.

Like, is this an anarchy or what?

But so, yeah, that's, that was that.

And he said, what about the, did he admit to coming back from the bar and being intoxicated?

Or what do you, what do you say about that?

So when he got home after work, working a long dead work, he was, um, came home around like

midnight, I want to say, 11, 12, it was pretty late.

And, um, he, so the way they're living arrangements, they live in this building that has different

rooms and different, their families that are in different rooms.

So like they have the, him, his ex-girlfriend and what his baby mother and his baby, they

had their own room within the building.

Okay.

And, um, he went into the living room.

We got home and he was drinking.

He saw this cousin in the living room and he started drinking some beers with his cousin,

playing video game, drink some beers, having fun.

So, um, that's where the drinking comes in.

Okay.

Okay.

And then he says that he eventually goes back to the room and she attacks him or how's that

go?

After drinking, he goes back there and they're talking and he's telling her, I want to lay,

I want to lay between you and the baby.

And there's like, and she's like, no, you're drunk.

I'm tired of you.

Like you're drunk.

It's a little, a little argument for certain.

Yeah.

Now her phone rings, he gets a notification.

He doesn't know what it is.

He thinks, you're cheating.

He doesn't know.

So he grabs her phone and he pretend he hits it.

He bangs his fist on the baby's crib, pretending to break the phone.

Okay.

He's being pet.

The way I described it to the jury, he was being petty.

Yeah.

He's being petty.

He's, he's mad because he thinks his girl is cheating on him.

So he grabs her phone and he pretends to break it, but he didn't break it.

Okay.

We got that on the fact.

He didn't break it.

She gets mad because she believes her phone is broken.

Yep.

She began swinging physically, um, attacking my client.

Yep.

Attacking Diego.

She wouldn't keep her hands off him.

So Diego, that's when he, um, he grabs her and he pushes her into the, onto the bed telling

her to calm down after like trying to persuade her to calm down.

Stop like, you're good.

I didn't break your phone.

X, Y, and Z.

He lets her go.

She runs over to the, um, the kit, the stand in the room, grabs the metal air freshener can.

He's looking down on his phone.

She chunks it at his head, hits him in the forehead.

And he has a big, big, big like lash right there.

And it's like gushing, bleeding everywhere, which later on in the arrest, they, the officers

reopened that room and blood is everywhere.

Just to sum it up, your client's playing video games.

He's drinking.

He won't go back to talk to his baby's mama.

She's upset.

He eventually goes back there.

There.

He wants to lay in the middle.

She doesn't want that.

So the phone rings.

He pretends to break it.

She gets upset.

She starts attacking him, uh, hitting him, throws the Lysol can.

So then after that, how does it deescalate and she moves on or whatever?

How's that go?

So after the Lysol and after the blood, she sees blood.

She's like, okay, this is a bit serious.

He goes like, I'm fucking done with you.

Like, I can't believe you just did this shit to me.

So he calls her father.

This is important stuff too.

He calls her father and her mother.

Her father is in Guatemala.

Okay.

So he calls her father saying, this is what, this is what your daughter did to me.

Get her out of my home.

She needs to move back to Arkansas with her cousins, with her family.

She needs to get away from here.

And then he tells me that him and her, they spoke.

He's like, we're done.

You got to get up out of here.

You got to go.

We're done.

So he's like, you're going to go to Arkansas.

I'm about to go to sleep.

I need to drink.

I need to sleep this off.

Yeah.

And that's it.

I already told your mom.

I would have called your dad.

I'm done.

So that was the agreement when he went to bed.

He was under the belief that she was going to pack her things.

She's going to move, go to Arkansas.

And that's it.

How'd you start developing your defense in this case?

Okay, so specifically, I set for discovery compliance because we didn't have any photos, no videos, nothing.

So I'm like, we need that stuff.

So let's schedule the next court day for discovery compliance.

Woo, woo, woo, woo.

Okay.

She, Brent, next court day come, I have everything.

So you got the Byron video and did you have a chance to review it?

Yes.

What did it show?

It was like disgusting.

The way, like what really, what really pissed me off was like the way they just went in there.

They knew that he only spoke Spanish and you sneak up on him while he's asleep and just grabbed him like that.

And then they hog tied him.

They tied his ankles.

They tied his ankles.

They tied his knees.

And then they tied his hands.

Three portions that were tied.

I'm sorry.

There were three portions that were tied.

Overall, hog tied him.

And he's, mind you, they reopened his wound, his head wound.

So he's bleeding everywhere.

Is hog tied when your limbs are tied in front of you or behind you?

Honestly, I just say.

If you're tied weird, I'm saying hog tied.

But like, yeah, he was just, they just had him tied up so weird.

He was not a threat at all.

He keeps saying like, what did I do?

What did I do?

I didn't do.

And then what really pissed me off looking at that video is when he starts screaming his arm, his arm.

The body worn camera falls off.

So all you hear is stop resisting, stop resisting.

And I'm guessing when I looked on the body worn video, there was like some blankets on the ground.

And the officer didn't testify.

He slipped on one of the blankets.

And that pissed him off.

Like he slipped in the mist.

And that's how they, and they landed on top of it.

When the officer finally picks up his body worn camera, he's like, are you okay?

He's like, yeah.

When he finally picks it up, you see my client on the ground.

You see the angry officer.

That's what I call him.

The angry officer.

He's like, yeah, I slipped on all this fucking shit right here.

So it's just like, I'm livid at that point.

Yeah.

So you see all this stuff.

It's different from the police report.

Do you talk to the prosecutor and tell them, hey, your case is going to go to hell?

And what do they respond, if anything?

Oh, so I spoke with the prosecutor at the time of announcing ready.

I told her, this does not look good.

There was no resisting.

Prosecutor, she's the CIA.

She's been in the game for like 20 years.

And she knew that I was a newbie defense attorney.

She tried to push over on me a little bit.

She's like, here's the thing.

I'm giving you a sweet deal.

She kept saying it was a sweet deal.

I ain't shit sweet about this, but okay.

She's like, this is a sweet deal.

You should take this.

How about I cut this off and you only do this?

And I'm like, no.

I'm like, I'm trying to tell you, like, you got it wrong.

And she's like, no.

But you know, I can tell you are clearly like, I think your inexperience did show a little bit.

Because you told the prosecutor that they have a bad case as if that was going to make a difference to them.

She clearly didn't care.

As if they care about that.

I'm like, okay.

So she's like, I'm like, did you watch that video?

And she's like, yeah.

And I'm like, oh, she clearly didn't watch it.

She didn't watch it.

They're not in the business of looking at evidence.

Until it's time.

Until the trial comes.

So, all right.

Let's talk about some motions in lemony, motions to exclude evidence.

We call them 402s here.

Well, first you get sent out to a judge, right?

Yeah.

How did you feel about the judge you got sent out to?

At least at this point.

At this point, I'm excited.

I'm like, oh, I've been in her courtroom.

I like her.

Okay.

And that changed.

Yeah.

And they missed the trial.

But we'll get there.

Does she try to do anything to lean on the client?

Try to get him to plead?

Take a deal?

No, no.

There was nothing like that in the beginning.

No, no, no.

We went straight to it.

All right.

So, what types of motions in lemony did you do then?

Okay.

So, one was to exclude the 911 call.

Okay.

And I told them that.

What was the basis for that?

Given that it was unduly prejudicial because it was fabricated and influenced by her cousin.

Who made the 911 call?

She made the 911 call.

The ex-girlfriend.

The ex-girlfriend after the cousin arrived.

Was she showing up to trial?

She showed up.

Yeah, she showed up.

I crossed her.

Okay.

So, she's present.

Because I know, at least we were taught, like, in a lot of domestic violence cases, sometimes the alleged, the complaining witness doesn't show up.

And the prosecutor still tries to admit a 911 call.

But then we have to get excluded and there's this whole legal analysis.

But you actually have the complaining witness there, which could lay the foundation for the 911 call, which, to me, makes it even tougher to exclude.

Exactly.

But you still went for it.

And I still went for it.

I'm swinging hard.

I'm telling you, David.

But it was not granted, obviously.

Yes, yeah.

It wasn't granted.

But it was fine.

Okay.

So, my second one.

Yeah.

And this is the one that got the court's attention.

I moved to admit a buy-to-win video.

You know, you usually exclude videos.

Right.

I wanted to admit the video of when they arrested my client.

And the CA is throwing a tantrum to keep the video out.

What?

What's their argument?

Yeah.

It's a long video.

It's a long video.

There's portions of the video that we can't even see.

There's no relevance.

I'm like, this is a 148.

Everything that happened in the process of that arrest is relevant.

That's like, that's almost like excluding the surveillance video or, you know, like.

And even the judge was like, wait a minute, wait a minute.

Let me make sure.

Because the people, you're usually the ones that want to admit the buy-to-win videos.

And the defense, you're the ones that want to exclude it.

So, you want to admit it.

Is there something on this video that you don't want the jury to see, counsel?

And I'm just looking at it.

I'm like, yeah, counsel.

Is there something you don't want the jury to see?

And overall, it got in.

The judge didn't seem like she was going to entertain that at all.

Yeah, she didn't entertain me.

Okay.

Yeah, she didn't.

Yeah.

It's like, come on now.

It's the body-worn video.

Okay, nice.

I like that.

So, the judge denied both of your emotions.

She denied the first one and granted the second one.

She granted the second one.

The one to admit the body-worn video.

Right, right, right.

Any other 402s then?

That I can remember?

Yes, yes.

Okay.

It was some fucking prior incidents.

You know, that's the only time prior stuff can come in is with DV-related things.

But the prior stuff, oh, I was able to get her really good on cross with those priors.

But they was able to come in.

The prior what?

Prior...

Yeah, what were the allegations?

Yeah, one of the prior allegations was that he hit her on her knee one time during an argument.

Made her knee turn red.

Right.

I'm like, okay.

Oh, man.

Second incident is that she had to say that he tried to push her out the car.

But I promise you, I get the real facts out from her that day.

She had to say that she tried to push her out the car one time.

And then lastly, which didn't come in, the first two got in, but the last one, we were walking through this mall or something.

And I look on the, or just like the bodega, just like an outside thing.

She's through these shops.

And she looks on the security camera and she sees her boyfriend, Diego, behind her.

And she says he does, like, I think he, like, kicks a homeless person or something.

Or, like, does something to a homeless guy while he's drunk.

And they were trying to say, they were trying to get it in on this is how he behaves when he's intoxicated.

That's what they were trying to get it behind.

Diego, I, Diego said he never did that.

It didn't come in.

It's not a domestic violence incident.

It's not.

They were trying to say that it shows that he has a propensity to be violent when he's drunk.

It's propensity evidence.

That doesn't fly.

It doesn't fly.

Exactly.

So it didn't fly.

But the other two incidents came in.

Right.

So, yeah.

So that was the motion in limity.

Were any of those prior incidents, no police were called, no police reports?

I don't think that, no.

There were no police reports.

No police reports.

So just uncharged, unreported allegations.

Yes.

No, nothing was reported.

Nothing.

So how did we know about the prior domestic violence incidents that are coming in?

That's what we're talking about right now?

Yeah.

Yeah.

How did we, how is it documented then?

She gave statements.

The witness gave statements.

To the prosecutors.

Which I got at the very last moment.

Like, do they still use those sort of carbon paper?

The yellow type.

Yellow.

Yeah.

Witness statement.

Here you go.

At the very last minute.

Yeah.

The witness just said this.

And here you go.

Wait, wait.

Can I like get some questions out for?

That's fine.

Yeah.

And there's shitty handwriting.

Yeah.

I'm like, okay.

By the way, no one can write anymore because we're always used to typing and texting.

You guys try writing now?

My hand is so out of shape when I write.

I can barely get through my name.

It just starts falling apart.

You know?

No, my hands are worn out from the laptop and video games.

After that, my fingers are done for.

No writing for me.

But, yeah.

It was crazy at that point.

But, yeah.

That was Emotion and Lemonese.

And then we get to Opening Statement and everything.

Well, those Emotion and Lemonese.

Then next, it's time for jury selection then, right?

Yes.

I can't believe I almost jumped through that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm sorry.

I'm still in that mock trial.

We didn't do voir dire.

But, yeah.

Okay.

Voir dire.

It was my first voir dire, too.

I loved it.

Then next, it's time for jury selection then, right?

Yes.

I can't believe I almost jumped through that.

Yeah.

It was my first voir dire, too.

I loved it.

Yeah.

I mean, here's the thing.

I mean, my first jury trial.

I won my first jury trial.

It was only a vandalism.

This is your first jury trial.

You have two politically charged charges right here.

You have domestic violence and a police and a cop case, too.

So, yeah.

That's a pretty tough voir dire for your first one, I think.

Mm-hmm.

Or even any voir dire, really.

So, how are you tackling that?

All right.

What was your approach?

What were you thinking?

I do this little thing.

I do this, like, grandma story.

And it's like, and I change it every time, whatever the charge is.

But it's like, basically, say I'm from the South.

I'm from Tennessee.

My grandmother raised me.

She's very Southern.

She's so old school that she would not accept any fact.

There's no justification of a man putting his hands on a woman in no type of way, even

if he's defending himself, even if it's in the most minute way.

My grandmother, she wouldn't be good for this jury.

That's okay.

Is there anyone that's like my grandmother?

And, you know, they, you know, I'm kind of like your grandmother there.

And, you know, all right, there we, mm-hmm.

So, that was kind of where I started.

And I also talked about police and would you give more credibility to an officer.

Yeah.

So, tell us about how'd you do that with the police.

Do you believe officers should be fair, get both sides of the story?

Will you give more weight to their testimony just because they're officers?

Do you believe that, um, an officer should do a thorough investigation?

Cops shouldn't be aggressive or officers shouldn't be aggressive when handling individuals, correct?

Officers should have their Biden one video showing all, just things kind of like foreshadowing.

And, like, yeah, because when I hear a resisting officer, I want to put in their head, like, you know, we, it's the other way around.

And when you hear an aggressive officer, when you put those words out there, they're like, oh, wait.

So, was there an aggressive officer in this case?

You know, so I wanted, because when they hear that, I don't want them to just be like, oh, I want to give you a little something to have on your mind throughout the rest of it.

Any memorable moments with jurors, with respect to the cop element of the voir dire?

I am so surprised at how much people would admit that they have favoritism towards officers when they testify.

I'm like, wait, so you're just going to, you're telling me that you automatically say that this person is telling the truth just because they have a badge?

Like, how can you be so comfortable saying that?

But I was able to get people to say, yeah, oh, also, yeah, I mean, he got arrested.

He must have done something.

He's sitting right there.

Yeah.

You got to get those people out of there.

Yeah.

So I was able to find those few and get them out of there.

Now, up to this point, before we get to the opening statements, how has your client been?

You know, can you tell us about him a little bit?

Yeah, it's been very, he's always down time.

Okay.

He's been very chill.

Again, it's the language barrier, so we're not able to just talk to each other automatically.

Right.

I know he worked at the taco stand at night, so sometimes he'll be a little asleep.

But, like, overall, he was a great, a very great first client.

Okay, so let's talk about opening statements then.

How'd that go for you?

Opening statements, my theme.

And I like making themes.

Actually, I like making themes for my colleagues here.

Like, they always tell me, what's a good thing?

And they'll give me the facts, and I'll be like, it's a theme.

And they're like, all right, let me use it.

So my theme right here is pretty simple, but they got it all wrong.

The officers got it wrong.

The people, the government got it wrong.

And now they want you to get it wrong.

So that was, like, basically, and it stuck.

Really?

I mean, I kind of feel like that's sort of an opening argument, right?

Yeah, I mean, I didn't get an objection.

So, yeah, it was fun, though.

And, yeah, I definitely, I didn't get an objection, yeah.

So I was able to sneak that in.

And then the prosecutor's opening, what was that like?

Oh, God.

I love this, because this is always, like, a standard reaction to, like, when I ask our

guests, like, the prosecutor's this, the prosecutor's that, it's always like, oh, God, I'm just

trying to remember.

They did this horrible thing.

No, it was just like, what are you doing?

It's just like, I felt like I was being lectured to in, like, in, like, a world history class

or something.

It was not good.

All right, so tell us about the People's Case and how'd that roll out?

The People's Case, they put up the officer first.

Okay.

And, oh, the video that she was begging and screaming for not to come out.

Right.

And it got in.

She jumps the gun and she plays it first.

I know.

They always fucking do it.

You gotta jump the gun and play it first.

I hate it when they do that.

Using my, using my transcript.

Right.

Because you weren't going to play it.

Right.

So you're using my official transcript that we paid money for with the county.

But still.

Yeah.

But still, yeah.

So she jumps in front of it.

Which is a good tactic.

That's just, I mean, that's the only way to do it.

Yeah, I mean, I'll give her that.

You gotta do that, you know.

She jumped in front of it, but I loved it because she, and I'm like, yep, mm-hmm.

And I'm going to play it again.

And it just showed everything.

How'd the jury react, if you remember, when they played the video?

It was like, because they're looking for the resisting, too.

And when they saw the blood, I just, it was a lot of head, like, shakes.

It was a lot of, like, it was a lot of, like, confusion.

And this is the opening, their opening witness?

Their opening witness.

Wow.

The first thing they see.

Yeah, they should have called the complaining witness first.

Probably.

I'm like, yeah, but.

But.

Hey, let's get it.

I love it.

Not the, not the brightest way to start.

So then, yeah.

So what's, how's the cop describing the events or justifying the actions?

What's he saying?

First off, he says that Los Angeles Police Department is kind of like the same thing in Spanish.

So they should have known, like, he should have known that it was still the police.

And then, like he said, I did speak some Spanish to him.

The only Spanish word we hear is, really, hante.

Relax.

Oh, wow.

That's it.

After he's already.

After, after all of that.

Yeah.

After everything.

They're really hante.

They're really hante.

Bro, it's too late for that.

Yeah.

But yeah, tell us about the director, how they laid it out and stuff like that.

So direct examination.

Yeah.

He was saying that everything, they followed our protocols.

Okay.

They stated that they didn't have to get a statement from Diego because they already got

the statement from Madeline.

They're like, we already have a statement.

We've already, we've concluded that it's the domestic investigation.

And therefore, we went to arrest them.

He said everything was protocol.

He, they said, he's saying that he saw bruising on her.

Yeah.

He saw all the bruising on her and all that.

It was all fresh.

Did the prosecutor put up the pictures?

She put up the pictures and she's saying, yes, that's like literally pointing at nothing.

Yes.

That's the bruising that I saw.

Do you have the colored photos at this point?

No, I'm using hers at this point.

You're right.

I'm using hers.

But then I'm after, after that day, that's when I got them.

Okay.

So then, um, all right.

So let's talk, tell us about your cross-examination of the cop.

First off, he looked, he tried to, he kept pivoting around.

He wanted to pivot around.

He wanted to say that my client was resisting, that he was kicking, tussling.

And I was like, not one, like even when the video fell, the camera fell.

I was like, officer, we're in the video where you're saying stop kicking.

We're in the video.

You're saying stop, like, you know, all you hear is, all you hear is, um, stop resisting.

Right.

Which is what you're trained to say.

Yeah.

Also, um, my client is bleeding because I told you they opened his own wound back up.

I asked him, I saw the blood all on the ground.

I said, wait, I pause it.

Now, officer, that's blood right there, right?

I don't know.

What?

That's not blood, all right?

I don't know what that is.

I was like, why are you doing this?

Why are you doing this?

So, so he won't, he won't admit the obvious, the obvious, right?

It's like, he's bleeding blood.

He walks over and I'm saying, is that Diego's blood?

I don't know what that is.

I don't even know if that's blood.

It's a red.

And it's like, it made me a bit mad.

So I kind of, I should have just left it.

Child's, I should have left it.

But no, you got me fucked up because you know what that is, bro.

So that's what happened.

And he also, it was the protocol of, he was yelling, my arm, my arm, my arm.

Because I said, your partner told him, oh, just let him cry it out.

I'm like, it's not protocol to get a medical, like a medical personnel?

That's the protocol to just let him cry it out?

Is that what they're teaching you there?

That's what I'm asking him.

He's like, you know.

And he starts trying to ask me questions.

I have to get, hey, officer, I know you're not used to it.

I'm the one that's asking the questions and you're answering them.

I know you, when you're out there, you may be.

But no, no, no, no, no.

This is my field.

You answer, I ask.

I have to get them right.

But no, it was fine.

Wait, did you say it like that?

You answer, I ask.

No, in court you did?

I get, I like to guess, I, and that's the thing.

I just, I just, and judges, I always get the comment.

You go get that judge, Jamarcus, that's just going to grill into you.

Because, I mean, hey.

But, you know, I mean, like, before, this is your first trial.

But you probably cross-examined some police officers during the, when you did prelims, right?

Yeah.

You know, so you kind of got your feet wet a little bit doing that.

You got a little taste for it.

When it comes to cross-examination with officers, you should be able to answer.

This is serious stuff.

Yeah.

You should be able to answer my questions without being so evasive.

I like that.

I mean, I like how you're taking, you're taking control too, right?

You're running, this is your show.

You're running it.

And a cop needs to fall in line with you.

Exactly, because someone's livelihood is on the line.

So, no, we're not about to, there's nothing funny about this.

Okay, cool.

So, what happens next in trial?

Now we have the CW.

Okay.

The girlfriend, the baby mom.

Great.

She gets up there and she starts telling her story.

Her story.

And it's what I told you guys.

He was drunk.

He tried to come back there and to get with the baby.

He was mad that she wouldn't let him come between the baby.

And unprovoked and out of nowhere, grabs her by the throat, chokes her, punches her two times, and throws her.

And that's it.

That's her story.

Okay.

And how did your cross-examination go?

Oh, man.

I love this cross-examination.

I have to be very delicate because I can be a little aggressive.

And I even said in a voir dire, if I get a little aggressive with her, is that okay?

You know, I always want to do that.

So, it was, I get a little aggressive with her because you're lying on my client.

There's this one point that I really remember.

She kept saying, he hit me on the, he hit me on the right side.

He punched me on the right side of my face, the right side of my face, the right side of my face.

I'm looking at that photo.

I'm like, that's the left side of her face.

That's the left side of her face in this photo.

So, I go, I'm like, your testimony is that he punched you in your right side.

Right side, right?

And that's where the mark came.

And I'm like, that's the left side of your face in this photo, right?

So, I got her on that.

Like, it's all, so it was that.

And then it's the, he put her nails in the neck, but there's no nail markings.

And then she's saying that she got the bottle.

She said on direct dissemination that she grabbed the aluminum bottle because he was choking her and she was able to reach.

She hit him and was able to get released.

And therefore, she was able, she got herself free.

That was her story.

Yeah, so where was he choking her supposedly?

Like, in the room?

In the bed.

On the bed.

On the bed.

Mm-hmm.

And she grabbed the bottle.

And she grabbed the one, the bottle off the dresser.

Oh.

That's 10 feet away.

Okay.

Okay.

And then she was able to grab that and clock him upside the head.

Wow.

And that's how she got free.

Oh, man.

From this crazy lunatic, man.

Yeah.

Wow.

I was like, whoa, what a story.

Yeah.

Did she get emotional on direct?

Did she cry at all?

Not one bit.

Oh, come on.

She couldn't even cry?

Not one bit.

She gave us no tears.

Wow.

I'm like, oh, this is fun.

I don't got to.

Yeah.

Also, during Cross, start talking about the prior incident.

Mm-hmm.

I was like, yeah, you're saying that my client tried to push you out the car.

Isn't it true that you was punching him in the face during the time while he was driving

and you grabbed the metal pole and tried to da-da-da-da-da-da?

And she said, yes.

Oh, whoa.

Isn't it true that you threw a bottle at his head da-da-da-da-da-da on that night as well?

Yeah.

I'm like, oh, yeah, you know?

And it's like, I just went, because it was so much.

She left a lot of stuff before.

And that just made her look like a liar already.

Because I'm like, you're talking about these other incidents, but isn't it true?

Da-da-da-da-da-da?

Yes.

Isn't it true?

Now, did you have that from your client, and the prosecutor had no idea that was coming?

No idea.

My client told me, that stuff she's talking about, let me tell you what really happened.

And I'm like, okay, boom.

I'm going to get her up there.

She's squirming.

She's like, yeah, that's what happened.

Wow.

So you got her to say, I mean, because she could have said no, right?

Yeah.

And that would have been like, fuck.

I'm like, you sure that or not?

But no.

She gave me that yes.

Yeah.

And I was like, good.

I was like, perfect.

Yeah.

Because that's, but you've already, at that point, though, you've already kind of have taken

control of her.

Oh, yeah.

At that point, mm-hmm.

Like, you told the police your side of the story.

You called your cousin.

You didn't call 911 at first.

This is the left side, not the right side.

Exactly.

Right.

All that, the nails, the fact that my client actually called her mom and her dad after she

hit him, and the fact that before he went to sleep, they had the agreement that she would

be moving out and heading to Arkansas.

Yes.

Yeah.

And she's like, that was the agreement.

So, she kind of confirmed his story in that she was going to be leaving.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

That she, that she confirmed the story that he called her dad, saying, this is what you're,

like, I don't want to be with her no more.

This is what your daughter did to me.

Confirmed, called the mom.

Like, so, if someone's beating on your daughter, I don't think he's going to, the first thing

he's going to do is call your dad and say, you know, so.

That was, I was like, okay, good, good.

I like it.

So, then what happens next in trial?

After the cross of the complaining witness, they rest.

Nice.

They rest.

That's it.

I don't know what, oh, they, it was, it is one remarkable moment that I remember that

they had the cop demonstrate how someone can walk while they're hog-tied, like, he, the

prosecutor.

Because that was part of the testimony that he was hog-tied and walked?

Mm-hmm.

And he walked.

And then, like, and I was saying, he, because they kept saying he was resisting and that

he wouldn't walk.

And I'm like, and I'm like, he's tied up from his ankles, his knees, and his arms.

Mm-hmm.

And you're saying that he's resisting because he's failing to get up.

They use all of this as justification for saying he resisted.

So that, and then that's when, just like, well, can you demonstrate to us how an individual

would walk if he gets up and he starts, like, hopping.

It was, even the CA told me afterwards, that was the most embarrassing shit I've ever seen.

Because it's like, dude, what are you doing?

Wait, the cop?

The cop got off the stand and started hopping around the courtroom.

Bunny hopping.

Bunny hopping around the courtroom.

What the hell are you doing, officer?

So, yeah, he's like, yeah, they can easily walk like this.

And it just started, Bunny, I'm like, bro, you don't have a broken arm.

You don't have a, like, stop.

So, yeah.

Yeah, he started bunny hopping in the courtroom.

That's crazy.

So, even the prosecutor acknowledges that the 148, it's a bad argument to say the 148 occurred

when they woke him up, right?

So, now she's saying, so now they have to, after they've already beat him up and hogtied

him, there was no 148 up until then.

He's been super compliant, even though he's hogtied.

So, they hogtied compliant people.

And then, and then his inability to walk to, to please, to get up, walk out.

To get up.

Walk out.

And walk out.

That's, that's the delay.

When his arm is broken.

Well, yeah.

Fractured.

What happens next in trial?

Are we still, are we talking about sidebar stuff yet?

Or are we just going to?

Well, did, has a sidebar happen up to this point?

Yes, plenty.

Oh, you got to tell us about it.

Okay, okay.

Let me.

Yeah, plenty.

So, sidebars, plenty of sidebars have happened.

Sidebars have happened already.

Okay, tell us about it.

Yeah, I mean.

One sidebar.

Tell us the story.

Yeah, she's like, ooh, that judge.

She, one of the sidebars was that I don't have to.

She didn't like that I answered.

But she's like, you don't, everything doesn't need to respond.

Because it's just.

And she didn't like, I'm like nodding my head.

She's like, stop nodding your head at me.

And I'm like, okay.

And if I say yes, your honor.

Like, even one of the, like the trainers had to come down there.

And he's like, whoa, what the fuck is this?

Like, why is she, why is she so like.

I'm like, okay.

She's, she, like she exploded in one of, once the jury, like in one of our little hearings.

Outside, she exploded.

Like, she took it to the point where she said she had to take a five minute break from me and go to the back.

So, what's going on that's led, so who's calling the sidebar?

What, at what point did this happen?

Can you give me more specific details?

What happened?

So, a lot of the.

I'm sorry.

Can you give the A&G audience more specific details?

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Sorry, audience.

It's about you guys.

It's not about me.

We're here, we're here.

We love you, we love you, we love you.

So, no.

So, a lot of them were led by the prosecutor, the DA.

Because, it was a lot of objections, a lot of objections.

They didn't like some of the stuff that I was doing.

So, the judge was doing a sidebar to hone in your, I guess I'll call them antics?

Yeah.

Like, your show, the show was getting out of control in your favor.

In my favor, that's what it is.

She wanted to reel it back in into like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

And I'm like, hey, here's the thing.

I'm out there now.

You can't control me like that.

Like, I'm with my jury, and like, these are my people.

And it's like, um.

You're making the system look bad.

Exactly.

She told me.

Yeah.

She like, because like, she's like, talking to me.

She's yelling at me.

Like, and like, all of my, like, we had to have a big meeting at CCB about it as well.

Because there was a lot of people from my audience in the background.

And like, even Mary told me that she is so lucky that I won that.

Because if I didn't, we would have had an appeal process, and it would have been real bad with

the transcripts and stuff.

Yeah.

Because like, it was at one point where the jury is out, thank God.

My client is still beside me.

My people are back there, the PDs.

There's some CAs back there.

And she goes, and I'm like, I'm leaning on my back, on my chair.

I'm leaning in my chair just a little bit.

Not too crazy.

The jury's out.

I'm talking to my client.

We're chilling.

And she, she's talking about everything that's in need of response.

She's yelling at me.

And I'm like, yes, your honor.

And she's like, you don't.

I'm like, yes, your honor.

And she's like, also, act like a professional and sit up in front of your client.

And I'm like.

I'm like, she ain't talking to me.

And so I'm like, I live, and I'm still leaning to my chair.

Because I'm not leaning far back at all.

It's just a little lean.

Because am I doing it a little bit to show her, like, yeah.

Am I showing her, like, yeah, I'm my own being.

You don't control me.

But I'm leaning a little bit, still with my client, being professional as ever.

And I'm like, I ignored it.

She said, lean up in your chair and act like a professional in front of your client in my courtroom.

I said, oh, shit.

OK.

And it's like, one of my colleagues, she said, and to me, it felt like a boy moment.

And it was weird.

It was scary.

And it's like, OK.

And then she had a whole freak out where it's like, I need five minutes away from you.

I need to go to the back.

And my colleagues were all just like, why is she so like, why?

From you?

From me.

She said, I need five minutes away from you.

Wow.

Counsel.

Wow.

And all of my responses was, yes, your honor.

And don't give me those eyes.

Don't give me that face.

She's very, and she's the most facial expressive person ever.

How old is this judge?

She is, um, how old is this judge?

She's, she's older than she looks, actually.

Yeah, no.

She's actually 60.

OK.

Oh, shit.

OK.

Way to know the judge there, Mooch.

You know, 60.

You know, like, it's.

Yeah, but I mean.

The Mooch.

The Mooch has his sources.

Yeah, wow.

He knows.

He knows what's up.

I mean, that, that kind of interaction reminds me of when I used to get in trouble in grade

school.

Yes.

Like, like, I used to, like, get in trouble, but I wasn't really breaking any rules, but

somehow it's causing chaos in the classroom.

And so they just wanted to get you to control you in some way.

So sit up.

You're just like.

OK.

Lean forward.

You know, like, look forward.

Both feet on the ground.

You know, like.

It's like, all right.

There it is.

Now everything is at equilibrium.

Yeah.

I'm back in control.

I need to be in control.

Everything.

I'm not in control.

No, legit.

And that's how it felt.

And like, again, respect the judge and everything.

But it's just like a lot of those rulings and a lot of the things that she did in that

trial was very much three against one.

OK, so it's time for the defense.

Time for the defense case.

Time for my case in chief.

OK.

Yes.

You know, the big question.

Because everyone wants to know, is your client going to testify?

Yes.

Do you have.

Yes, Your Honor.

I called Mr. to the stand.

OK.

Yeah.

To the stand.

He did a wonderful job.

OK.

I believe that out of all my four clients, and I have respect, I love all my clients, but

out of all my four clients that have testified, he was very emotional, cried, he told his story,

he explained it thoroughly, and we was able to just go to each portion and explain what happened.

Yeah.

Anything that really stuck out to you, like, when he was talking about something specific or?

We watched the video.

He started crying in the middle of the video.

Of the cops.

Of the cops.

OK.

Because of what they did to him.

Yeah.

And that, it pissed me off again.

Yeah.

Because it's like, it's like, now seeing him, and now everyone finally sees him, he tells

his story, and the video is playing, and he's just, he's sobbing.

Right.

And that was one of the most memorable moments for me right there.

Like, him just sobbing, and like, and you know, like.

And you have to stop.

You have to pause.

Oh, I have to let that, like, soak in.

Let that soak in.

And, like, I even, like, gave tissue.

All that.

Because this was serious for him.

Yeah.

Like, no one wants to be accused of being a domestic violenter, you know?

Like.

Totally serious.

So, he got up there and told his story, and they found him very credible.

Yeah.

And then, what about the cross-examination of your client?

She was not.

How was Cruella?

Cruella.

That's what we're going to call her Cruella.

God.

She's like.

So, you do, so you know a little bit of English.

Like, he.

She's coming out through that, Steve.

His English.

She's like, so you know a little bit of English.

Los Angeles.

Los Angeles and Los Angeles.

She's trying to give her own.

It was so.

And she's like, this white one.

I'm like, it does not look good from you.

Like, you're butchering these Hispanic terms.

Like, what are you doing?

And, like, she's like, they all sound the same, don't they?

So, he should have known.

And I'm like, objection, speculate.

It's just a lot of stuff.

And she's like, so you punched her in the face, didn't you?

No.

And you didn't know.

And, yeah.

It was just, it wasn't good.

Okay.

And this is, I mean, this is after, too, your client's crying in response to the video of him getting pummeled.

Getting destroyed.

Right.

So, she's not, she's sort of oblivious to what the jurors, she's not meeting the jurors in that moment.

Like, you got to show a little empathy there.

No matter what.

No matter what.

Yeah.

Even when, if someone's sympathetic and they're lying, I don't just come out yelling at them.

I got to, like, kind of meet them and then slowly show the jurors this person's line.

You got to build up to that.

Yeah.

And I think that hurt her as well.

Right.

Yeah, that hurt her really bad.

You got to acknowledge the pain.

You got to acknowledge the suffering.

So, okay.

So, what happened next in the trial for you, in the defense?

Was that it for you?

He cried.

He got all, we got all that information in.

And then that's when she crossed.

I'm pretty sure I probably redirected to make sure.

Yeah.

Because I want to get the last word in.

Then we went to closing.

Okay.

Tell us about that.

My first thing I start off with is the video.

I just play the video.

Yeah.

Of when they enter, the portion when they enter.

Because it's still, it still says, you know, so I just play it.

It's quiet.

Play it for, like, four or five minutes.

Stop it.

Better be quiet for a second.

And I go.

They got it all wrong.

You know.

Go back to the thing.

You see?

They got it.

The police got it wrong.

The government got it wrong.

They got it wrong.

And now they want you to get it wrong.

But you see.

And we go into that.

And so that was that.

And spoke about the inconsistencies in Madeline's.

All of the inconsistencies.

The inconsistencies in the wound, where the scars of the wound is supposed to be.

The inconsistencies of the left side of the face and the right side of the face.

Exposing her for her true behavior, how she really behaved towards him on those other prior incidents.

All of that to show that she's a liar.

It was just this.

And the officer, how he's fighting like he has a freaking dog in the fight.

And how he's just saying anything that will be helpful to the prosecutor.

And I asked for it not guilty.

And then that's when it happened.

Okay.

What happened?

The judge says, I'm going to ask the jury to step out for a second.

Okay.

She's like, I think I heard some.

I think during testimony I heard evidence of a push.

Because it was the punch and it was the grab.

So one count, one count to the punch to the face.

One count to the grab to the neck.

And they added the third count, the push.

This is the judge.

Yeah, I heard a push in there somewhere.

Are you not?

You're not going to add that, people?

You're not going to add that as another count?

So you want them so they can basically have another option to where they can find my client guilty?

That's what you're basically putting out there?

She's like, yeah, I heard that he pushed her too.

Let's make sure that's in the count.

Let's add that.

That's what she does.

Wow.

So the judge asks the jurist to step out of the courtroom and wants to now add a charge to the case.

After all the evidence has been presented.

After I finish my closing.

After all the questioning has been done.

Yes, sir.

After you've already given up your defense.

After you've strategized your case.

And she wants to add.

I've never even heard of that.

I've heard you can add charges right before trial.

Even that under is limited.

It's not like you just add any charges before trial.

And then to add them after the people arrest, you can kind of add charges.

Can someone help me out with the law here?

What's the law to adding charges?

It's like it's a count or charge.

It's a count.

She added the count.

Yeah, they can add.

They can add all the way up until the end.

So fucked up.

It's not done usually on the judge's motion or, you know, bringing it up.

But it does happen from time to time.

But this, I mean, clearly the judge wanted to put her finger, you know, put her thumb on the scale.

It's crazy.

So what did you do when that happened?

So this is what I do.

And it gets even crazier.

Okay.

So now I have to present.

She's like, I'm going to give you five minutes, counsel, to address the new count that's been added.

Five minutes.

So that's when the jury come back soon.

So, like, I come back.

And I'm like, all right, members of the jury.

I'm coming back again.

And this is the reason why?

Because they don't have, I was like, their case is so weak that they have to add another charge.

The people, the government has added another charge.

Objection from the government.

Objection.

We didn't add that charge.

The judge did.

I look at the judge and she says, that's right.

I added that.

Ooh.

So what the hell are the jury supposed to think?

Oh, the judge said that?

Oh, it must be true then.

That's crazy.

Crazy.

She tells the jury, yeah, I'm the one that added that count.

And I had to deal with it.

So, yeah.

So what did you do?

Just argued more?

The same shit?

Same shit.

And I'm just like, well, you heard it there, folks.

The judge added it.

Yeah.

But again, that shows how they need help from the judge.

Did you say that?

Because I was mad.

Yeah.

I was so furious.

Yeah.

I'm already mad at you from all the shit from the sidebars and all the stuff.

Like, so you did that?

What's the cherry on the cake?

So, yeah.

So I don't know.

Hey, I mean, so, yeah.

When you start getting help from a judge, what did I tell you folks?

You know?

But, yeah.

So after that, it was time for the-

I think you would have been justified in saying a third prosecutor in that moment.

Literally.

Or prosecuting a robe.

I think you would have deserved the-

That would have been okay.

Mm-hmm.

I think so.

But I did my five-minute second closing, and they went to deliberate.

Tell us about it.

So you just finished your argument.

Uh-huh.

Now it's in the jurors.

That's your first jury trial.

Mm-hmm.

You go back and sit down with your client.

Tell us about that moment.

So now, we're just waiting.

Yeah.

Now we're waiting.

How long were they?

I think they deliberated for two days.

Wow.

Two days of deliberation.

And-

Any questions?

Any read back?

I believe we did have a question.

Yeah, we had some questions.

I can't remember exactly what those questions were.

It was probably like, defined it.

Yeah.

What's the definition of that?

Yeah.

But, yeah.

And then we came back with the verdict.

I feel like, you know, like, that's just-

I mean, this is your first experience, but like, just having a jury out.

Mm-hmm.

But then you're supposed to, like, do your public defender duties.

Right.

And be in court.

Handle other cases.

With that on my mind.

You got this pit in your stomach.

Yeah.

It just eats away at you.

He's just waiting for that text from the J.A. to say the verdict is done.

Yeah.

I mean, because I feel like it sounded like the trial went well for you.

Yeah.

But you never know with these juries, bro.

But two days?

Two days, yeah.

I know.

It should have been like two hours.

Yeah, I know.

They said there were some people that were still-

Like, one of my guys was like, there were some people that were still-

I'm like, come on.

But they got them all to the right side.

Well, let's talk about it.

So let's talk about-

So you get the call that the jurors have verdicts.

Mm-hmm.

All right.

And tell us about that.

All right.

Instantly called.

Get here.

Let's go.

We got a verdict.

It's time.

Yeah.

He gets there.

He's nervous.

I'm going to let him know whatever happens.

We're good.

Can't get worse than the offer.

You know?

So we're going to take the offer.

But let's just see what happens.

It's crazy.

One of my supervisors, he actually heard them over, overheard them talking about what they

were going to give him as the punishment.

Yeah, we're going to give him 52 DV classes.

And like before, they're already talking about what they're going to give him as the conditions

before the verdict is up.

I was like, you counted those chickens way too early.

So yeah.

So they're already talking about, yeah, we're going to give him this and this type of probation.

And I'm like, oh wow, y'all were confident, I see.

So yeah.

And my whole office is down there.

Almost my entire office is down there.

And we're down there.

And they're like, we have the verdict.

And they read it.

First count, not guilty.

That's the DV case?

That's the DV.

Oh yeah.

DV, I remember.

Smacking his leg.

I'm like, yeah.

So the first three were DV and the last two were resisting arrest.

Right.

First, not guilty.

Second, not guilty.

Third, not guilty.

Fourth, not guilty.

Fifth, not guilty.

Yeah.

Bro, I was like, whoa, shit.

Like, I turn around.

My client is like, he's ecstatic.

I turn around.

I'm like, they're about to burst out into everything.

They're about to burst out into everything in the back audience.

It was amazing.

I loved it.

Oh, yeah.

Incredible.

Incredible first trial.

Unfortunately, it wasn't the judge.

We had another judge.

Oh.

I was so mad.

She was like, I'm not going to be here on the day.

Like, fuck, I wish she was.

But she knew.

She knew, though.

Because I would have asked.

I would have liked to see the judge's reaction when she looks at the verdict forms.

Before she passes it off.

And be like, mm-hmm.

So, we get the verdict.

And everything.

And like, all five not guilty.

Woo, woo, woo.

We go out.

And the jury, they're all out there waiting.

I've never seen someone run to their office so fast.

Okay.

I'm sorry.

So, you get the not-guilties.

Mm-hmm.

The jurors leave.

Exit the courtroom.

Mm-hmm.

Your client's an excuse.

Mm-hmm.

So, you walk out with your client into the hallway of the courthouse.

Mm-hmm.

And then the juror, all the jurors are there.

A lot of the jurors are out there.

And then the prosecutor just goes right by them.

The first chair prosecutor?

Yeah.

Beelined to the elevator.

Okay.

She said, congratulations, counsel.

And she left.

I'm sorry.

She didn't want to speak to the jurors.

And then the other one stuck around.

She stuck around.

Okay.

So, you guys stuck to the jurors?

Talking to the jurors.

The jurors is like, whoa, we thought you guys hated each other.

She's like, no, I love him.

And I'm like, yeah, we're cool.

So, there's that.

And I'm like, the quote that we always remember, he stated, the foreperson, he says, this case

is a disgrace to the people.

And it makes me feel disgusted to be represented.

By you all.

It was very, it was to the point, they wrote it on the board at CCB.

Like, he was, this foreperson had called me like two or three times afterwards as well.

Like, he was very invested into the case.

Like, he told me that he spoke with the CA as well, the prosecutor.

And he asked, did you have to, she said, yeah, we had to bring those charges.

I had to bring those charges.

I told him, don't let her lie to you like that.

She chooses what charges she wants to bring.

And she chose to bring those dumbass charges.

And we had to give her that result.

So, yeah, it was, it was a long, heartfelt bottle, but it was, it was good.

I liked it.

Interesting.

And then how was your client's reaction?

He was so happy.

He was able, he was on house arrest.

He had an ankle monitor, got that off immediately.

Right.

And he invited me to come to his taco stand to get like some tacos and stuff.

It's still haven't been though, but I'm still, I'm going to go.

Yeah.

I think you got to go.

I got to go.

Where's it at?

Oh, I need to, I got to hit him up.

Yeah.

But yeah, that was my first trial.

First trial.

Yes.

Thanks for coming on the pod and sharing it.

That's, that's a doozy.

I love it.

Thank you for having me.

I, I listened to a lot of these episodes and now I'm excited to be able to listen to myself.

Yeah.

And be able to contribute to what you have here.

So thank you.

Okay.

Well, Jamarcus, we're going to close it out now, wrap it up.

I'm going to, the last question we ask is the question we ask all our guests.

Okay.

Why'd you want to become a public defender?

Why did I want to become a public defender?

Oh, well, I've always wanted to be a lawyer.

Actually teacher and lawyer ever since I was younger.

And I've been blessed enough to be able to do both.

I became a public defender because I knew I wanted to do defense work and I knew I wanted

to be in the courtroom all the time.

I just love being in the courtroom.

I love being in front of the jurors and I want to be able to represent those that are,

that are forgotten about the ones that are, that are stereotyped and give them a voice.

And like our clients are like people that I hang out with, you know?

So it's like, it's, it's just like, it's a sense of familiarity there as well.

And it's also just like, I know what I can do in a courtroom and I don't want to give that,

I don't want to give that talent to the freaking government who has everything stacked on their side.

And that's why I choose to use my talent, my gifts to fight the good fight.

And that good fight is to advocate for those who are poor, those black, brown people that look like me.

And so overall, get them a voice and let them know that people are here to argue for you.

Because at the end of the day, that case, that trial, whatever they're going through,

that case is probably the biggest thing that they're in their life at that moment.

And the appreciation that I receive from my clients every day is insane.

It'd be the smallest things of, I just, you did the work, bro.

I just turned in your progress support and stuff.

But you are so thankful.

You want to buy me coffee and stuff.

It just shows, like, bro, it's just, it's a great, it shows that I'm appreciated.

And, like, working in this field, you see results fast.

And they definitely, they show how appreciative you are.

And they are.

And I feel like I'm definitely making some change, you know.

And this LA Public Defenders Office, the largest defense firm in the world, baby.

And oldest.

And the first.

And the first?

And the first.

Oh, you just gave me much more to brag about.

Now I got more stuff to say.

But, yes, thank you so much, David, for having me.

Seriously.

Yeah, thanks for coming on the pod.

Mooch, always a pleasure.

Glad we got to hang out again.

Absolutely.

Thanks for having me co-host.

This was a great episode.

Yeah, it should be fun.

All right, guys.

Thanks for coming on the show.

All right, thank you.

Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of Another Not Guilty.

Shout out to Daniel Mark, original A&G theme music composer, and Mike Grimm for the remix.

And guess what?

We'll be back in two weeks with Another Not Guilty straight from the trenches.

We'll be right back.