Believe No One: Discrediting the Client's Confession

Season 7 · Episode 16Sun, 05 Oct 2025

The story

Defense attorney Ryan Sullivan out of Massachusetts casts doubt on his own client's confession to win an acquittal on all charges in a gun possession case. The defendant — a young shoe salesman who had been shot six times — faced a mandatory 1.5-year minimum sentence under Massachusetts's

Listen and follow the trail

Apple Podcasts Spotify show Find this episode on Spotify YouTube

Verified transcript excerpt

Kind: captions Language: en All<00:00:01.839><c> right,</c><00:00:02.480><c> welcome</c><00:00:02.879><c> to</c><00:00:03.439><c> another</c><00:00:04.240><c> episode</c><00:00:04.720><c> of</c> All right, welcome to another episode of All right, welcome to another episode of Another<00:00:05.359><c> Not</c><00:00:05.680><c> Guilty.</c><00:00:06.400><c> My</c><00:00:06.560><c> name</c><00:00:06.720><c> is</c><00:00:06.879><c> Dallas</c> Another Not Guilty. My name is Dallas Another Not Guilty. My name is Dallas Gutman<00:00:07.839><c> and</c><00:00:08.080><c> I</c><00:00:08.240><c> am</c><00:00:08.320><c> a</c><00:00:08.480><c> public</c><00:00:08.720><c> defender</c><00:00:09.040><c> in</c> Gutman and I am a public defender in Gutman and I am a public defender in Cincinnati,<00:00:09.840><c> Ohio.</c> Cincinnati, Ohio. Cincinnati, Ohio. >> My<00:00:10.880><c> name</c><00:00:11.040><c> is</c><00:00:11.200><c> Rachel</c><00:00:11.519><c> McKay.</c><00:00:12.000><c> I'm</c><00:00:12.240><c> also</c><00:00:12.480><c> a</c> >> My name is Rachel McKay. I'm also a >> My name is Rachel McKay. I'm also a public<00:00:12.880><c> defender</c><00:00:13.200><c> in</c><00:00:13.360><c> Cincinnati,</c><00:00:13.920><c> Ohio</c><00:00:14.400><c> with</c> public defender in Cincinnati, Ohio with public defender in Cincinnati, Ohio with Dallas.<00:00:15.679><c> Dallas,</c><00:00:16.000><c> how</c><00:00:16.160><c> you</c><00:00:16.240><c> doing</c><00:00:16.400><c> today?</c> Dallas. Dallas, how you doing today? Dallas. Dallas, how you doing today? >> I'm<00:00:17.680><c> good.</c><00:00:17.920><c> Did</c><00:00:18.080><c> you</c><00:00:18.240><c> hear</c><00:00:18.400><c> I</c><00:00:18.640><c> did</c><00:00:18.720><c> something</c><00:00:18.960><c> a</c> >> I'm good. Did you hear I did something a >> I'm good. Did you hear I did something a little<00:00:19.279><c> different</c><00:00:19.439><c> with</c><00:00:19.600><c> the</c><00:00:19.760><c> intro</c><00:00:20.080><c> there?</c><00:00:20.320><c> I</c> little different with the intro there? I little different with the intro there? I only<00:00:20.640><c> did</c><00:00:20.800><c> one.</c><00:00:21.119><c> All</c><00:00:21.279><c> right.</c> only did one. All right. only did one. All right. >> Yeah,<00:00:22.160><c> I</c><00:00:22.320><c> did</c><00:00:22.480><c> notice</c><00:00:22.800><c> that.</c> >> Yeah, I did notice that. >> Yeah, I did notice that. >> Yeah.<00:00:23.600><c> I</c><00:00:23.760><c> was</c><00:00:23.920><c> thinking</c><00:00:24.160><c> like</c><00:00:24.640><c> in</c><00:00:24.880><c> before</c><00:00:25.119><c> we</c> >> Yeah. I was thinking like in before we >> Yeah. I was thinking like in before we started<00:00:25.519><c> the</c><00:00:25.680><c> episode</c><00:00:25.920><c> of</c><00:00:26.080><c> how</c><00:00:26.240><c> I</c><00:00:26.320><c> was</c><00:00:26.400><c> going</c> started the episode of how I was going started the episode of how I was going to<00:00:26.640><c> switch</c><00:00:26.800><c> it</c><00:00:26.960><c> up,</c><00:00:27.119><c> I</c><00:00:27.279><c> was</c><00:00:27.359><c> thinking</c><00:00:27.599><c> maybe</c> to switch it up, I was thinking maybe to switch it up, I was thinking maybe like<00:00:28.560><c> What's</c><00:00:28.800><c> up?</c><00:00:29.119><c> what's</c><00:00:29.439><c> up</c><00:00:29.920><c> or</c><00:00:30.240><c> something.</c> like What's up? what's up or something. like What's up? what's up or something. But<00:00:30.960><c> I</c><00:00:31.199><c> kind</c><00:00:31.359><c> of</c><00:00:31.439><c> panicked</c><00:00:31.760><c> and</c><00:00:31.920><c> I</c><00:00:32.079><c> just</c><00:00:32.160><c> said</c> But I kind of panicked and I just said But I kind of panicked and I just said one<00:00:32.559><c> all</c><00:00:32.640><c> right.</c><00:00:33.520><c> It</c><00:00:33.680><c> was</c><00:00:33.760><c> disorienting</c><00:00:34.320><c> for</c> one all right. It was disorienting for one all right. It was disorienting for me. me. me. >> Are<00:00:35.840><c> you</c><00:00:35.920><c> okay?</c> >> Are you okay? >> Are you okay? >> Where<00:00:36.399><c> are</c><00:00:36.559><c> we?</c> >> Where are we? >> Where are we? >> Are<00:00:37.200><c> you</c><00:00:37.360><c> okay?</c><00:00:37.680><c> Are</c><00:00:37.920><c> you</c><00:00:38.079><c> safe?</c> >> Are you okay? Are you safe? >> Are you okay? Are you safe? >> Yeah.<00:00:38.800><c> I</c><00:00:38.960><c> need</c><00:00:39.120><c> a</c><00:00:39.280><c> second.</c><00:00:40.160><c> And</c><00:00:40.320><c> we</c><00:00:40.559><c> have</c><00:00:40.640><c> a</c> >> Yeah. I need a second. And we have a >> Yeah. I need a second. And we have a great<00:00:41.040><c> guest</c><00:00:41.280><c> today.</c><00:00:41.520><c> We're</c><00:00:41.760><c> here</c><00:00:41.920><c> with</c><00:00:42.160><c> Ryan</c> great guest today. We're here with Ryan great guest today. We're here with Ryan Sullivan<00:00:43.120><c> out</c><00:00:43.360><c> of</c><00:00:43.920><c> Massachusetts.</c><00:00:45.280><c> Uh</c><00:00:45.680><c> Ryan,</c> Sullivan out of Massachusetts. Uh Ryan, Sullivan out of Massachusetts. Uh Ryan, do<00:00:46.480><c> you</c><00:00:46.640><c> want</c><00:00:46.719><c> to</c><00:00:46.800><c> tell</c><00:00:46.960><c> us</c><00:00:47.280><c> um</c><00:00:47.440><c> a</c><00:00:47.600><c> little</c><00:00:47.680><c> bit</c> do you want to tell us um a little bit do you want to tell us um a little bit about<00:00:48.000><c> yourself?</c> about yourself? about yourself? >> I'm<00:00:49.840><c> already</c> >> I'm already >> I'm already >> Hey,<00:00:50.640><c> there</c><00:00:50.800><c> we</c><00:00:50.879><c> go.</c> >> Hey, there we go. >> Hey, there we go. >> Hey,<00:00:51.920><c> there</c><00:00:52.079><c> we</c><00:00:52.239><c> go.</c><00:00:52.399><c> We</c><00:00:52.640><c> got</c><00:00:52.719><c> the</c><00:00:52.879><c> other</c><00:00:53.039><c> two</c> >> Hey, there we go. We got the other two >> Hey, there we go. We got the other two in. in. in. >> I<00:00:53.920><c> can</c><00:00:54.160><c> relax.</c> >> I can relax. >> I can relax. >> Order<00:00:57.039><c> is</c><00:00:57.360><c> restored.</c><00:00:58.640><c> God.</c> >> Order is restored. God. >> Order is restored. God. >> Uh<00:01:00.879><c> yeah.</c><00:01:01.199><c> So</c><00:01:01.440><c> I'm</c><00:01:01.760><c> a</c><00:01:02.320><c> uh</c><00:01:02.480><c> criminal</c><00:01:02.879><c> defense</c> >> Uh yeah. So I'm a uh criminal defense >> Uh yeah. So I'm a uh criminal defense attorney<00:01:03.600><c> here</c><00:01:03.920><c> in</c><00:01:04.479><c> uh</c><00:01:04.799><c> Massachusetts.</c><00:01:05.680><c> Uh</c> attorney here in uh Massachusetts. Uh attorney here in uh Massachusetts. Uh unlike<00:01:06.400><c> a</c><00:01:06.640><c> lot</c><00:01:06.799><c> of</c><00:01:06.880><c> people</c><00:01:07.360><c> on</c><00:01:07.840><c> uh</c><00:01:07.920><c> the</c><00:01:08.159><c> pod,</c><00:01:08.640><c> I</c> unlike a lot of people on uh the pod, I unlike a lot of people on uh the pod, I am<00:01:09.200><c> uh</c><00:01:09.360><c> right</c><00:01:09.600><c> now</c><00:01:10.240><c> uh</c><00:01:10.640><c> primarily</c><00:01:11.439><c> a</c><00:01:11.920><c> uh</c> am uh right now uh primarily a uh am uh right now uh primarily a uh private<00:01:12.479><c> criminal</c><00:01:12.799><c> defense</c><00:01:13.119><c> attorney.</c><00:01:13.600><c> Uh</c><00:01:13.920><c> my</c> private criminal defense attorney. Uh my private criminal defense attorney. Uh my partner<00:01:14.640><c> who</c><00:01:14.880><c> is</c><00:01:15.040><c> also</c><00:01:15.200><c> on</c><00:01:15.360><c> the</

Transcript captured from the public YouTube captions during the audit.

Related public-defense resources

This episode connects to the show’s PD Resources hub for defender organizations, training, wellness, and law-student resources.

Publication record

Published: Sun, 05 Oct 2025 00:30:00 GMT
Season / episode: 7 / 16